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  1. #1
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SannaR View Post
    I want to say Koji got asked this at one of the last fan fests. The answers given was we can use magic and you know people who can jump insanely high into the sky and come plunging down you're going going to cause a lot of damage. Heck Aymeric even is in awe when Hien from the back of a Yol slices an airwing in half with just his sword.
    Don't forget about the special individuals who can annihilate a entire base by himself or herself like Estinien.

    He literally Jump dived and destroyed a entire based just to destroy the Garlean's 2nd Cannon in stormblood despite being out numbered by hundreds of Garlean Soldiers.

    Magic powers are just far more destructive and creative compared to the Garlean's advance technology to a point technology is more about trying to replicating the effects of what Magic can do.

    Yes, advance technology is a certain advantage but one must consider the advantages of Magic itself as well such as creating protective shields around a individual to make them immune to bullets for a certain amount of time, instantly healing all possible injuries, curing cancer instantly, enhancing weapons to a point they can cut through armor more easily, creating massive destructive force equal to that or a missile, and the list can go on.

    If anything the lack of development with technology in Eorzea until the events of 2.0 MSQ, is more due to how there was no reason to heavily invest into advancement of technology when Magic can do everything technology can do already.

    This war against the garlean empire simply provided the reasons for the other countries to begin investing more in advancing technology to create more effective weapons and tools for war.
    (9)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 10-21-2020 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    It's also important to note that on ghimlyt we had a much bigger alliance that fills in respective weaknesses of each grand company, in a sense achieving a unity similar to an empire but with the different groups unifying by choice.

    Each grand company is implied to have decent infantry strengths with the flames likely having the best, then you have maelstrom as a navy and adders as scouting generally speaking but you also have ishgard which would have excellent surface to air knowledge and artillery as well as likely having the most experienced military force on the continent with surprising technological developments thanks to the ironworks and skysteel manufactory then you have Doma with it's samurais and intelligence units.

    Garlemalds biggest failure aside from it's personal problems is that they took too long basically and the battle of silvertear was probably the main hit that caused it, if it didn't happen they likely would have conquered everything.
    (7)
    Last edited by VargasVermillion; 10-21-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Wyssahtyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    870
    Character
    Saika Kinoshita
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 53
    It's been proven that people riding birds are far superior than whatever pathetic aircraft the Garleans can field (heck even infantry is far superior considering that Garlean pilots are so poorly trained that they'll regularly fight at ground level). Plus Purebloods, for all their proclaimed superiority, can't even shoot a stationary target either despite what appears to be a platoon's worth of centurions firing on it (now that I think about it, the gunners on their capital ships can barely hit anything either). Obviously the information we got about the Garleans early in the game's life that made them out to be this force to be reckoned with was just a bunch of overblown nonsense. A point later proven in late Stormblood even when we learn about how the Empire was formed.
    (1)
    Last edited by Wyssahtyn; 10-23-2020 at 03:03 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn View Post
    ----
    Considering how power hungry the Legion's leaders are, I am surprised they have not blown up by themselves until now.

    The moment their leadership dies every single Legion are basically pointing their guns at each other to be the next ruler instead of keeping the Garlean Empire stable and unified until a new leader is properly selected.

    It only shows how flawed the Garlean Empire truely is despite all their propaganda for being the "better and more civilized" country because of their advance technology. In the end they were all words and no different from any of the other countries they considered less civilized.
    (10)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 10-21-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Veloran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    665
    Character
    Vane Weaver
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 84
    Garlemald basically conquered two-thirds of the world and would have gotten Eorzea too if not for Middy. After that we basically never face them as a unified force - The 7th and 14th were lone legions striking out into Eorzea (that still almost won) without support, the 6th pretty much went uncontested on Azys Lla outside of being forced to break off pursuit and make repairs, the 12th was split across two continents and actively had it's effectivness sabotaged by Zenos, and the 4th is heavily implied to be purposefully giving ground in Dalmasca rather than fighting back in force.

    They've also been engaged in several consecutive civil wars for the past couple of expansions, so that doesn't help.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    ADVSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,397
    Character
    Advent Shadowsoul
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    No matter what tech the Garleans have, they will never, ever, be able to travel via aetherytes. Fast airships, sure, but we havent seen that. Instant transmission? All of Eorzea, cause the Garleans cant use Aether.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    The Garlean legions have a sizable amount of conscripts specifically to get around the whole "can't use magic" issue, so I don't think it actually puts them at that much of a disadvantage.

    There's also a distinct possibility that they could start mass-producing Resonant soldiers as the data on the project was transferred back to Garlemald as per Sicinius' datafile from Bozja.


    I think the main reason they haven't conquered us yet is because they're forced to keep themselves spread thin in order to hold the lands they've laid claim to. If they ever decided they just wanted to bring a decisive end to the Eorzean Alliance and had their all of their legions coordinate to deal with them, I don't think we'd stand a chance, though that opportunity has likely passed now that everything is in disarray.
    (1)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 10-21-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    myahele's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    4,644
    Character
    Tonrak Totorak
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    There is also the 2 different Garlean political parties: Optimates and Populares.

    The Populares wants to stop Garlean's expansionism and to focus on the territories it has, whereas Optimates wants to continue it. Not sure how it was when Solus was Emperor, but Varis was held back by the Populares and had to convince them via a ploy.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3,822
    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    To specifically address the "guns vs swords" angle, the reason why guns are so "ineffective" is related to the reason why a three-foot Lalafell can swing a sword and deal as much damage as a burly seven-foot Roegadyn. EVERYONE who isn't a Garlean uses magic bascially all the time. It's so deeply ingrained in them that they don't even think about it. This makes them stronger, faster, and more durable - and since Roegadyn possess about the same amount of magic as Lalafell do, they wind up being equal in strength. When talking weapons, a sword wielded by a magic-wielder hits just as hard as a bullet fired from a gun - and when it strikes another magic-wielder, a gun only does as much damage as a sword would.

    Garleans, historically, were at an ENORMOUS disadvantage because of this. The magic-wielding tribes easily pushed them out of their original territories into the inhospitiable Ilsabard areas, where they made a meagre living until Emperor Solus rallied them and made use of uncovered Allagan technology to provide tools that evened the playing field. That's right: evened. Those guns and bombs could only do that much, thanks to the magical resiliancy of the magic-wielding people. Fortunately for the Garleans, their first few conquests granted them additional armies of conscripts, forced into battle with their families essentially held hostage, and each nation taken snowballed the Garleans' power to the point where they were essentially an unstoppable juggernaut.

    Then, they encountered Midgardsormr, their first crushing defeat against a completely unexpected and unknown enemy, which stalled and confused them to the point where the Eorzeans were able to claim other victories, as well. They probably COULD have rallied and continued the conquest unabated, but it's likely that Emperor Solus saw a good opportunity to rein his Empire in. Nael wanted to call down Dalamud, and Solus knew very well that Bahamut was trapped inside (heck, he was there pulling the strings from the shadows when Bahamut was trapped in the first place!), and so was all for the plan. It was a perfect opportunity for a Calamity, and it worked like a charm (even if the full devastation was tempered by Lousioix's sacrifice). Bahamut was freed, Calamity happened, another Shard was joined to the Source.

    By the time all was said and done, Solus's human body was on his deathbed, and after he passed no one was able to lead the nation as compently as he had - and he'd organized things to make certain this would be the case, much to his successor's frustration. Solus wanted the Empire to be strong and dangerous, but he could only allow it to be overwhelming for so long. There had to come a point where others were able to stand against it, to enable the conflicts necessary to trigger yet another Calamity.
    (12)
    Last edited by LineageRazor; 10-21-2020 at 10:42 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    WhiteArchmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,458
    Character
    Samniel Atkascha
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Snip
    Given the revelations from 4.4/.5 it seems very "convenient" that Solus "uncovered" Allagan tech

    Given Emet-Selch mentions being involved with the Allagan Empire, it stands to reason he rounded up a bunch of disgruntled tribes, fostered their feelings of superiority through technology, and "casually" led them to where he remembered Allagan Tech being. Hell, he basically fostered a culture where the higher ups just can't help backstabbing one another to get in his favors; guaranteeing that there is chaos and in-fighting.


    Also, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Othardian expansion halted because of an unknown primal? Or am I merging Solus blaming the Empty on Primal summoning with something else entirely?

    Also, to OP, even in/before 2.0 the Eorzeans weren't cavemen by any stretch (except, perhaps, the Duskwight by the most literal of meanings), they're right before the Industrial Revolution, with main travel still being done by carriage or ships, but airship travel is relatively common. Plus, Limsa Lominsa has cannons and flintlock guns; Ul'Dah has the Thamuaturges' Guild which proved their worth in the liberation of Ala Mhigo, and Gridania has White Magic and Conjury to defend itself, along with superior scouts.

    And there is a particular aspect that is also very problematic for the Empire: Primals.
    Again, part of the Empire's Ascian manipulation, but fostering fear and hatred among the beast tribes (and Ala Mhigan youth), a single Primal could one-shot, maybe not a Legion, but several platoons, and that's not counting tempering which the Empire is JUST learning to counter with their artificial echo (and even that was more of a happy side-effect rather than intended).

    And we saw Shiva single-handedly take on the Gration and only lost because she forgot the Z axis, and even then she did a whole bunch of damage to the ship.
    (0)

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