"Revamp/Rework" obsession

[Daniolaut]

I do not get excited when every other patch FFXIV announces they are revamping or reworking something.

Its one thing to make a little tweak here and there to improve something, but to completely "rework/revamp" jobs and systems over and over makes it come off as someone has no idea what they are doing. It also isnt enjoyable as a player to "go re-learn" a job, class or system every other patch. Jobs should be getting improved with the expansions, not reworked over and over.

I do not buy into the mindset "this is an MMO, its common place" because it is bad practice. It takes away from the development of actual new content.

In fact, content has been steadily getting reduced.


Dungeons:

I have been playing since before ARR's release, we have gotten a significant reduction in dungeon count.
2.0: 19
3.0: 13
4.0 10
5.0: 6

We have seen a reduction in raid quality.

The raids are now just an arena with a boss. They even removed the door boss to prevent underperforming party members from participating in the harder fights.

Raids:
2.0: (First introduction to Savage raids.)
3.0: (Door boss "Faust")
4.0: (Door Boss' "Exdeath, Kefka, M/F)
5.0: None


Trials:

Trials have been drastically reduced and cut since 2.0
(2.0 is so high because of things like Gilgamesh, Odin etc.)

2.0: 16
3.0: 7
4.0: 9
5.0: 5


Job quests:

In 5.0 job quests were reduced to role quests.

....and nothing was added in its place. We just got fewer unique quests with literally no trade off.

Jobs weapons reduction

GNB/DNC do not have access to all primal weapons glamour.

Race reduction:

-Reintroduction to gender locked races
-More importantly, Hrothgar and Viera dont even have access to all hairstyles ***OR*** all headgear. Both. not just one, but both.


We have seen a reduction in Maps. The doors were 7 doors for the first 3, not to mention 4.0 saw the introduction of not only "Wheel of Fortune" optional dungeons, but also the Thiefs maps bonus dungeons. 5.0 is reduced down to only a 5

Maps:

2.0: Introduction of unhidden maps
3.0: Aquapolis 7 Doors
4.0: Lost Canals 7 doors, Thief's map 7 doors, Shifting Altars Bonus dungeon.
5.0: Lyhe 5 doors.

(5.4 hint at wheel of fortune? Still. Only 5 doors. This is fewer rewards. (Less chance at goblins/whiskers/etc. And no "double or nothing" does not make up for this, unless the % for rewards were increased, which they are not, so you're more likely to get nothing than double.)

Levequests:

We havent had new battle levequests since 3.0.

Sure some people dont care about this but some do, the point is not if you care, but that its cut content in favor of this obsession of "rework/revamp" nonsense.

Guildhests:

We havent gotten new guildhests since the launch of ARR.

[Daniolaut]

And with all this "rework" and "revamp" they still havent touched The Praetorium and Castrum. Something thats been a major complaint since 2.0.

No, "main story roulette" is not what those two dungeons are or were made for.

That is not a fix.

In fact its only making the situation worse. Those dungeons are ***story*** dungeons, they are not designed to be "I'm going afk and getting more than half a level for not playing FFXIV."


They also still havent fixed housing either. Which has also been a complaint since its release in 2.x.

[Shougun]

Looks like you're tying revamping content with less content as a whole- certainly redoing something takes resources but having to redo MCH for example wouldn't exclusively explain the difference from 2.0 to 5.0 as were revamps between those points as well. That and also looks like you do want revamps of some content, just that the content that has received it you didn't feel worth it for whatever reason.

All in all to say the devil it seems you're focusing on is the reduced content and not the redo in and of itself as a concept. Like if you revamped say chocobo content such that it had new content that had some relevance and gameplay content that's not like revamping say a perfectly well enjoyed job (say if they revamped Paladin entirely, I hardly hear people complain about that job). There was a feeling of changing a job you liked away from that feeling but you also mentioned some items that you would appreciate some changes to, so it's not revamping that was bad but what that you didn't appreciate.

If the content is really bad I think it's worth it as while not exactly like rotting food I still think it has a vaguely similar effect. Rotten apple spoils the bunch, unlike food it doesn't have to spread but it can mar the experience which might feel like spoil spreading. That and sometimes revamps / redos can provide a much better and or deeper experience, beyond polishing it up and making the whole package look well done.

I have also noticed some reduced content points, and am personally hoping it's because they're preparing something cool - maybe the expansion is going to have some neat new feature or expanded something further than they would normally (say if they wanted to end the main story they've been working on so far with a huge huge bang). Now of course it's possible they're just trying to save money (number of possible reasons, some eh some reasonable), or they're moving it over to other another project lol.

[Kiurai]

I'm struggling to understand what the overall point here is, you say that revamps and reworks are detrimental to the game but then twist it into a rant about lack of content, I stand wholly confused. The job reworks aren't worked on by the same team who makes those other content types anyways so I'm not sure what the rework point has to do with the main problem points you seem to be reaching for here.

[MsMisato]

I'm struggling to understand what the overall point here is, you say that revamps and reworks are detrimental to the game but then twist it into a rant about lack of content, I stand wholly confused. The job reworks aren't worked on by the same team who makes those other content types anyways so I'm not sure what the rework point has to do with the main problem points you seem to be reaching for here.

I think they were pointing out the time and resources going to revamp and reworks should be spent elsewhere like content with dungeons, leves, and guildheist. Of course, I could be way off and be completely wrong.

[ADVSS]

I think they were pointing out the time and resources going to revamp and reworks should be spent elsewhere like content with dungeons, leves, and guildheist. Of course, I could be way off and be completely wrong.

Pretty sure your synopsis is correct, as pointed out that although we got less of the usual content, we have been getting more side content related things, ala more things to do that arent always the same things we used to always get. I honestly on one hand do kind of agree, but at the same times things like dungeons to me, like well if its a story dungeon its fine, but optional dungeons like revisiting this area but going the oppositte way with entirely different mobs/etc is kind of just doing something just to do it? Maybe the weekly grind could change? Thats a formula they havent bothered changing throughout, but it also keeps the dungeons from going entirely extinct. How many people really enjoy daily dungeon grinding formula? I dont know

[Cetek14]

I just want to say that imo we don't need jobs reworks so often. Some jobs were changed a lot instead of adjusted, turning them into something inferior (DRK). Some jobs are changed from one abomination to another each expansion. And for example PLD and RDM are peak job design, and probably 6.0 changes will ruin them, because it will introduce forced changes.

[ADVSS]

I just want to say that imo we don't need jobs reworks so often. Some jobs were changed a lot instead of adjusted, turning them into something inferior (DRK). Some jobs are changed from one abomination to another each expansion. And for example PLD and RDM are peak job design, and probably 6.0 changes will ruin them, because it will introduce forced changes.

I cant agree with you more on this one.Something like 3.0 BRD, yeah, But I kind of fear, like you do that a job like rdm/pld will get the chopping block very soon, even if they are reliable and thematically well done.

[Shougun]

I cant agree with you more on this one.Something like 3.0 BRD, yeah, But I kind of fear, like you do that a job like rdm/pld will get the chopping block very soon, even if they are reliable and thematically well done.

Not saying I can't be wrong but I don't imagine they will purposefully do anything to Paladin or Red Mage to 'greatly' change it, in terms of it's core DNA. Of course they'll add something new but I don't imagine that's going to be a MCH redesign to a job that is already well received.

Say unlike before a lot of people were complaining about healers not healing enough and so they did some changes (I believe due to that), but of course those changes just made different issues lol.

Also would agree that Paladin feels quite nice, it's my favorite job. I wouldn't mind some more big boom spells since I feel that gives it a holy tank (actual tank, not the generic mmo term) / holy juggernaut vibe, which is quite fun, and perhaps a shield skill (shield bash maybe getting some love, since we've low blow already) or a way to use clemency without it being such a harsh punishment to our damage, but still a job I quite very much like. I also have a dream that Paladin may one day get the lightning spear kind of attack from Dark Souls (what one of the knights uses in HW to kill our bro, but holy looking instead).

[ADVSS]

Not saying I can't be wrong but I don't imagine they will purposefully do anything to Paladin or Red Mage to 'greatly' change it, in terms of it's core DNA. Of course they'll add something new but I don't imagine that's going to be a MCH redesign to a job that is already well received.

Say unlike before a lot of people were complaining about healers not healing enough and so they did some changes (I believe due to that), but of course those changes just made different issues lol.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you sometimes, but I've seen a whole lot of "adjustments" since 2.0 launch. I really do believe that they will just unnecessarily chop jobs up to make others in the role feel more safe at night having a "slice of that", Thats usually all we see every expansion. Sometimes they take it too far, and have to do a MCH or a 4.0 reversion like BRD. I hope that MNK will get the proper attention it deserves in 5.4