Elemental Spell Reform

[KoujiGeki]

maybe Blm tears will be able to hurt him. i mean there will be plenty of it to gather up for water ballons for the melee to throw at them when Blm are sitting on the outside of Titans instance begging for a pt.

[KoujiGeki]

but also couldnt help but notice no one had replies for my earlier posts about Wars and Summoners

[Klive]

maybe Blm tears will be able to hurt him. i mean there will be plenty of it to gather up for water ballons for the melee to throw at them when Blm are sitting on the outside of Titans instance begging for a pt.

That is how melee currently feel right now

[Jinrya-Geki]

That is how melee currently feel right now

In order for them to change it so every class/job is useful is to take away the knock back/self aoe that most Bosses have. The other thing is to do what Ifrit does with plumes, yet we all know how that would work out with lag. But it's the only way for melees to not completely run up to a mob and take it down fast. Give the plumes a larger time scale to ensure that it's our mistake and not server lag.

Lastly, stated several times, give black mage exclusively all tier elemental spells, give Cjn a combo line for banish/scourge.

It's really that simple, cjn get's it's solo factor, and blm is useful for all fights, and melee show their skill by dodging and attacking effectively. Everyone wins.

[Klive]

To give THM/BLM all the elements, it would take up their WHOLE spell list. Just for the basic and the second tier spell, that would be 12 spells. 12 spells that are are the exactly same spell with different elements. If you have them all the 'ancient magics' spells too, that would be 18 spells. Talk about a boring class, 18 spells that are all the same and 2 abilities. I really don't want 18 ways to do the same thing with a different graphic.

I know people want mages to have larger spell lists and mages are entitled to more button than melee. That would be just like FF14 at launch. I had tons of spells that I never used, and only had the element I needed for that fight on my bar. Mage pre-reform were just too packed with crap.

Right now, the spell make sense on how they work.

Thunder hits one target. Lightning in the real world is that same way, hits one point. I can see .that

Fire is like an explosion and hits an area. Fire is generally in not contained to s single spot, it does spread. Makes sense to me.

Ice is weak but slows and binds things. Compared to fire and lightning, ice does seem the weakest and would slow me down. Reasonable, works for me.

The current Dev team is probably trying to be as different as possible. Yes, limiting how spells work and giving them weaknesses does make them unique. Our BLMs and WHMs are different from other FF and have their own flavor. Why change that? Lets see how the other mage class turn out.

[Jinrya-Geki]

To give THM/BLM all the elements, it would take up their WHOLE spell list. Just for the basic and the second tier spell, that would be 12 spells. 12 spells that are are the exactly same spell with different elements. If you have them all the 'ancient magics' spells too, that would be 18 spells. Talk about a boring class, 18 spells that are all the same and 2 abilities. I really don't want 18 ways to do the same thing with a different graphic.

I know people want mages to have larger spell lists and mages are entitled to more button than melee. That would be just like FF14 at launch. I had tons of spells that I never used, and only had the element I needed for that fight on my bar. Mage pre-reform were just too packed with crap.

Right now, the spell make sense on how they work.

Thunder hits one target. Lightning in the real world is that same way, hits one point. I can see .that

Fire is like an explosion and hits an area. Fire is generally in not contained to s single spot, it does spread. Makes sense to me.

Ice is weak but slows and binds things. Compared to fire and lightning, ice does seem the weakest and would slow me down. Reasonable, works for me.

The current Dev team is probably trying to be as different as possible. Yes, limiting how spells work and giving them weaknesses does make them unique. Our BLMs and WHMs are different from other FF and have their own flavor. Why change that? Lets see how the other mage class turn out.

You boil anything under spells/abilities/armor/weapons to two general things, defense and attack. So to say 12 spells to say they all do the same thing, what doesn't? One book is a book, a sword is no different from another the sword.

Lightning is not a single target, what we see is not the whole bolt. The clouds hide away it's true form, which is a sprite which pretty much is the deadliest part of a lightning storm, usually they only go up into the air above the clouds. Pretty much an upside down tree, the roots being the sprite.

Fire can be single target as well, flamethrowers.

Ice... when do you ever see a weak slow avalanche? The bind part I agree with, it makes sense. But the bind/gravity doesn't work on important fights.

The soloer should not be prioritized over the party player. I am sorry it's an MMO you should be playing with people, just because people want to solo with Cjn doesn't mean they have to ruin Black Mage's damage output. That's why cjn should get banish/scourge. That way you keep your damn DD output and be an optional DD'er when you get the chance, but atleast then Blm can have so damn variety besides Thunder spells.

[Enfarious]

Indeed Jinrya-Geki I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Moving on:
And what's more there's no reason that all spells "must" be the same, I only ever said base dmg, added effects: burn, slow, bind, blind, paralyze, poison, def down, attk down, eva down, stun, gravity, this list is absurdly long if you choose to look through previous FFs.
So perhaps something like
AoE is a toggle, when AoE is on, there's a base range modified by gear/traits/active abils/spell tier?
AoE on base dmg is divided between mobs hit, so if AoE tags 3 mobs they each take 33.33% of base modified per mob.
AoE on added effects still land normal, their effectiveness isn't lessened by AoE spread.

I can't for the life of me remember all of the statuses and what element they're associated with anymore but if
Tier 1
Fire == (what's fire status effect, not burn)
Water == poison
Scourge == Blind
Banish == M.Def Down
Tier 2
Element II == Elemental debuff + DoT
So:
Fire II == Burn + Str Down
Ice II == Frost + Int Down
....

I'll assume everyone sees where that's all headed.
Yes it's 12 spells on THM/BLM not counting AM, but they all absolutely serve a purpose, no matter what even now w/ only 3 elements you aren't using all of them all the time. That's kind of the thing w/ elementally aligned attacks, you always use the 1~2 that are best in a given situation. That does not mean that you should be limited to only being useful in 3/4 situations because your missing 2/3s of the elements.

I want the 6 element wheel Ice > Wind > Earth > Thunder > Water > Fire > Ice, with Light <> Dark being diametrically opposed. It was a good system, far better than Earth <> Wind and Fire <> Water, or a 3 part rock paper scissors wheel. Your a mage, you should want to think about what's best, hell that's what mages are no, the "thinkers"

[Estellios]

BLMs being useful for Titan is all based on the design of the fight. They could have some adds you need to sleep or an Infernal Nails situation where the AOE damage of fire really helps to kill them.

As the element system is now, as long as enemies continue to be attuned to one element only there is absolutely no fight that you will not be able to at least deal neutral damage to. Your spells are more than just different flavors of the exact same spell now, they are situational and as long as those situations are utilized then BLM will see use.

Our spell lists are going to expand sometime around or at 2.0 anyway.

[KoujiGeki]

To give THM/BLM all the elements, it would take up their WHOLE spell list. Just for the basic and the second tier spell, that would be 12 spells. 12 spells that are are the exactly same spell with different elements. If you have them all the 'ancient magics' spells too, that would be 18 spells. Talk about a boring class, 18 spells that are all the same and 2 abilities. I really don't want 18 ways to do the same thing with a different graphic.

I know people want mages to have larger spell lists and mages are entitled to more button than melee. That would be just like FF14 at launch. I had tons of spells that I never used, and only had the element I needed for that fight on my bar. Mage pre-reform were just too packed with crap.

Right now, the spell make sense on how they work.

Thunder hits one target. Lightning in the real world is that same way, hits one point. I can see .that

Fire is like an explosion and hits an area. Fire is generally in not contained to s single spot, it does spread. Makes sense to me.

Ice is weak but slows and binds things. Compared to fire and lightning, ice does seem the weakest and would slow me down. Reasonable, works for me.

The current Dev team is probably trying to be as different as possible. Yes, limiting how spells work and giving them weaknesses does make them unique. Our BLMs and WHMs are different from other FF and have their own flavor. Why change that? Lets see how the other mage class turn out.

God says Challenge Accepted!!!

[Duuude007]

Their argument of using Fire/Thunder/Blizzard absolutely reeks of tradition. And I will show you why:

This list shows the spells which deal direct magical damage, designed to be available to a "Black Mage" in every previous Final Fantasy title. (using most current translated versions for ease of reading).


Final Fantasy

Fire, Fira, Flare
Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard, Blizzara

Final Fantasy III

Fire, Fira, Flare
Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard, Blizzara
Quake

Final Fantasy IV

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare, Pyro
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Quake

Final Fantasy IV: The After Years

Fire?, Fire, Fira
Thunder?, Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard?, Blizzard, Blizzara
Quake

Final Fantasy V

Fire, Fire2, Fire3, Flare
Ice, Ice2, Ice3
Bolt, Bolt2, Bolt3

Final Fantasy IX

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water

Final Fantasy X

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water, Watera, Waterga

Final Fantasy X-2

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water, Watera, Waterga

Final Fantasy XI

Fire, Firaga, Fire II, Firaga II, Fire III, Firaga III, Fire IV, Fire V, Firaja, Flare, Flare II
Thunder, Thundaga, Thunder II, Thundaga II, Thunder III, Thundaga III, Thunder IV, Thunder V, Burst, Burst II
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Blizzard II, Blizzaga II Blizzard III, Blizzaga III, Blizzard IV, Blizzard V Freeze, Freeze II
Aero, Aeroga, Aero II, Aeroga II, Aero III, Aeroga III, Aero IV, Aero V, Aeroja, Tornado, Tornado II
Stone, Stonega, Stone II, Stonega II, Stone III, Stonega III, Stone IV, Stone V, Stoneja, Quake, Quake II
Water, Waterga, Water II, Waterga II, Water III, Waterga III, Water IV, Water V, Waterja, Flood, Flood II

Final Fantasy XII

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Aero, Aeroga
Aqua

Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings

Fire, Firaga, Flare
Blizzard
Thunder

Final Fantasy Tactics

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Firaja, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga, Thundaja
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga, Blizzaja

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon

Fire, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzaga
Quake

Dissidia Final Fantasy

Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga, Burst
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Freeze
Water, Waterga, Flood
Aero, Aeroga, Tornado
Stone, Stonega, Quake

Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy

Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga, Burst
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Freeze
Water, Waterga, Flood
Aero, Aeroga, Tornado
Stone, Stonega, Quake

Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Quake, Quakra, Quaga
Aero, Aerora, Aeroga
Water, Watera, Waterga
Dark, Darkra, Darkga
Banish, Banishra, Banishga

TL;DR -- Black mage spells are as follows:

Fire-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 74 entries. (26.4%)
Thunder-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 63 entries. (22.5%)
Blizzard-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 63 entries. (22.5%)
Water-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 8/18 games, with 28 entries. (10%)
Stone-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 8/18 games, with 24 entries. (8.6%)
Aero-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 5/18 games, with 22 entries. (7.9%)
Umbral-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 1/18 games, with 3 entries. (1%)
Astral-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 1/18 games, with 3 entries. (1%)