Elemental Spell Reform

[Tipira]

wheres aspir/drain ? D: ... and make it aoe xD ... with a stun inbetween to run off a few steps before recast

[Geabrielle]

Alright, this isn't to start a ruckus but it has to be asked...

If any of you arguing for spell reform ever played FF11, did you really ... honestly .. TRULY use anything OTHER than the Thunder or Blizzard line. Be truthful.

I was a career BLM and took pride in having full access to all of the elements. I even tried to make use of them as the situation demanded and know what? "Thunder -- or Bliz -- are better, only use those for higher damage output ok?" The only time I used Aero-Tornado was Kirin. Only time I bothered with Water .. uhm... yeah. Or the lucky playing with the Fire line... uhmm yeah. For a moment I just realized I never even bothered to remember I had earth-based nukes save on that eyeball BCNM. I had a massive spell list that was 95% wasted. Yes I know FF11 is NOT the only FF game but it was the first FF MMO and they are most probably taking cue from the player base usage data in building this one on -some- things.

This being pointed out, it is also very classic FF to be restricted to those three spheres as a BLM/THM and I see no issue with it outside of the duration of the enfeebling effects outside of combo as well as the rate of resistance building by the mobs. I have a lighter spell list, I have to choose how and when to apply what I have to the best effect. I like it.
However, I do agree that I am annoyed that only the fire-line is AOE and isn't very cost effective but then again AoEs have always had that pitfall, ne?

Here is where I expect pitchforks : Conj/WHM do NOT need freaking astral based spells. They are NOT holy priests in any sense in this particular FF. Conjurers are liaisons if anything and WHM are a step up in harnessing elemental granted magic to bring succor. EI they are given access to the healing abilities of water rather than it's more destructive aspect. I don't see why they even gave WHM Holy ... it's has no real usage, it should have been Reraise or something instead.

So do we need the full elemental wheel as thms/blms? Honestly, no. Would it be nice? Perhaps. I'd rather fully explore my capacity as a blm with what I have first before asking for any more due to the restrictive spaces of the action bar. ( I hate the action bar thing btw. Hate hate HATE. But one must adapt, ne?)

[Enfarious]

That's a direct result of scaling the dmg for each spell by level obtained instead of by it's Tier. If each tier/type of nuke had the same base dmg and it was only a matter of the added effects and/or mob weaknesses that wouldn't have been the case.

Now that I've actually played CNJ a bit and unlocked WHM ... I see where the whole CNJ gets ele spells from, and it actually stands to reason that CNJ would be your ele nuker while WHM would focus on Light Elemental magics, it was a light ele in that CS right?

So then THM which I've yet to get anywhere with is the one with spells it shouldn't have?

[Geabrielle]

Yes, Oha Sok was the light elemental. I'm not one to enjoy whm but the story is pretty well done. I think the whole issue is actually what THM and BLM don't have natively. The angst is over CNJ/WHM having stone/aero instead something astral based and with THM/BLM's lack of having all of the element spells and their respective combination tiers save ice/thunder/fire.

Please SE beef up ice a little. Please. PLEAAAASE? Just a little.

And add a little more duration to the enfeeblement add effects. I'm not asking for a game breaking 60s, spoiled as I am from the other game but the like 3-5s duration is a little ... hmm how to phrase nicely ...? Inopportune? Silly?

[Jinrya-Geki]

Alright, this isn't to start a ruckus but it has to be asked...

If any of you arguing for spell reform ever played FF11, did you really ... honestly .. TRULY use anything OTHER than the Thunder or Blizzard line. Be truthful.

I was a career BLM and took pride in having full access to all of the elements. I even tried to make use of them as the situation demanded and know what? "Thunder -- or Bliz -- are better, only use those for higher damage output ok?" The only time I used Aero-Tornado was Kirin. Only time I bothered with Water .. uhm... yeah. Or the lucky playing with the Fire line... uhmm yeah. For a moment I just realized I never even bothered to remember I had earth-based nukes save on that eyeball BCNM. I had a massive spell list that was 95% wasted. Yes I know FF11 is NOT the only FF game but it was the first FF MMO and they are most probably taking cue from the player base usage data in building this one on -some- things.

This being pointed out, it is also very classic FF to be restricted to those three spheres as a BLM/THM and I see no issue with it outside of the duration of the enfeebling effects outside of combo as well as the rate of resistance building by the mobs. I have a lighter spell list, I have to choose how and when to apply what I have to the best effect. I like it.
However, I do agree that I am annoyed that only the fire-line is AOE and isn't very cost effective but then again AoEs have always had that pitfall, ne?

Here is where I expect pitchforks : Conj/WHM do NOT need freaking astral based spells. They are NOT holy priests in any sense in this particular FF. Conjurers are liaisons if anything and WHM are a step up in harnessing elemental granted magic to bring succor. EI they are given access to the healing abilities of water rather than it's more destructive aspect. I don't see why they even gave WHM Holy ... it's has no real usage, it should have been Reraise or something instead.

So do we need the full elemental wheel as thms/blms? Honestly, no. Would it be nice? Perhaps. I'd rather fully explore my capacity as a blm with what I have first before asking for any more due to the restrictive spaces of the action bar. ( I hate the action bar thing btw. Hate hate HATE. But one must adapt, ne?)

I didn't play blm in FFXI very long. I did play wizards in other mmos.

I would settle for fire/ice/lightning if they were all as cosr effective and had a INT combo boost. If all three were equal I wouln't be upset. How often are we gonna see all elements resisted by 1 mob. Versus lightning as our only effective one when earth and lightning mobs would resist.

At the moment ice spells are completely useless. Fire being way too situational on weak mobs,and terrible on most bosses, these spells need to be changed to be similar to thunder/thunara combo at the very least. And fire not to be aoe only spells.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Finally seeing more people noticing the horrible Disciple of magic ability system in newer threads. This is encouraging, but the lack of developer response is not.

Do you developers really have nothing planned? Your keeping this repetitive system the same for 2.0? Spam thunder or be useless on bosses that resist lightning or absorb it?

[Duelle]

Finally seeing more people noticing the horrible Disciple of magic ability system in newer threads. This is encouraging, but the lack of developer response is not.

Do you developers really have nothing planned? Your keeping this repetitive system the same for 2.0? Spam thunder or be useless on bosses that resist lightning or absorb it?

As I mentioned in the thread about magic revamps, the devs went all Suikoden on this game's magic system. Each element has a specific use and/or purpose. This wouldn't be bad in itself...were it not for the fact that as I've said before, BLM and WHM should both stem from CON. It stands to reason both in lore and basic design (which like it or not is still a throwback to how CON was at launch). You can't really have elements mix because the elemental wheel is split between two classes. That needs to change before anything else can really be done to fix things.

[KoujiGeki]

you know ive looked for the post stating that every final fantasy blm spell. there was one on the forums that someone posted. but i noticed that yes Blm most of the time blm only got Ice lightning and fire. But somthing else i noticed is that in most other FF whm never had any spells of earth wind or water, unless you could teach them the spell but then again if you could you could teach others not just whm. Ie ff6. and when water and earth and wind were added, guess what blm had them.

But on a side note could we just start calling it a Elemental star instead of a wheel.

[Agoven]

I wish the magic classes/jobs were more driven by combinations of magicite and leveling up of magicite through usage. That being said I don't think this will ever happen.

I'd like to see some crazy singular magic system that involves something like the following:
Grandia magic from equipping eggs..final fantasy 7ish too I guess, which you level by usage, and or combos of different eggs to get different spell sets.
Chrono trigger type combos. Combo action set select your skill, choose companion to combo with...companion gets menu open trigger combination skill input your skill...activate combo.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest...find your magic spells on your journey...

What could be feasible is the following though:
You have X spell points to commit to memory.
Spell is attuned to X Class/Job in order to add this spell with your current Class/Job you need to devote more spell points to use this magic under this Class/Job.

Or you could have your set spells as Class/Job. You are allotted daily a set of X spells outside your school of magic to commit to memory with limited uses.

I dunno...

I also favor the idea of abolishing MP. Anime and magicks are always shown to require a persons stamina and life force to cast. A strong spell takes time to conjure up...Meteo killed Tellah, magic should sap a players HP. I'll shut up now rambling LOL

[Jinrya-Geki]

So many good ideas/references for spells. Yet none being forwarded to the developers or
mention of a revamp. Very unsettling.