Elemental Spell Reform

[Jinrya-Geki]

Not just ice line. Freeze drops enmity more than it does damage. Against certain mobs it actually rocks damage, but those enemies are few and far between.

Fire line will suck up MP faster than you'll do damage in a fight. Flare is self AoE that makes it bad enough, with a burn enfeeble.

Resonance, I don't even use. Increase range. Only good for enfeebles which are useless.

Of the abilities 8~/20 are useful: Dark Seal, Sanguine rites, Parsimony, Thunder & Thundara (Sometimes Thundaga) Chameleon, Second Wind, and Convert. I don't count fire line because it's only good on trash mobs. I am not counting trash mobs anyone with an aoe can take them out, and it's mp consumption on bosses make it a less effective way to deal with them.

That is less than half the list of moves, I call that a failure.

[Jinrya-Geki]

If we are gonna be limited to 15 (20) Moves I want them all to be useful not less than half.

[Enfarious]

Your missing my point. The content of the game was made for a different version of THM/BLM. One that has access to all of the elements. The current incarnation of THM/BLM doesn't, so the content should take that into consideration. It's a small consideration too, knowing that it's fire/lightning/ice, tailoring enemy strengths/weaknesses/absorbs/special reactions to those three is small, and in any game considerations like that are made...

I'm sorry there's alot more and I want to kinda avoid a super wall.
That was actually my point in a round about way, the orig game design, classes jobs content were designed in a particular way, they revamped the classes/jobs but continue to design the content for the old, most likely because there's a framework for scripts that would be a nightmare to tear down and rebuild. The old abilities are all still present, enemies still use them against us, and they're still in the dats, they just stopped us from accessing them.

For melees, it's the first time I've seen so many different weapon skills being used. Most games it's X, Y, and Z after you've unlocked them, and ignoring A through W. At least with the chain system most of them are being used, even if it is only in a chain.

I have to agree it is nice that i still use the WSs I got in the beginning, the only thing I don't like about it is the other abils don't have alot of use on some jobs, yeah I could spam powersurge OR lifesurge but why waste the TP, and so on.
In XI w/ some 150 spells/abils I rarely had trouble using them all, I'm not saying I need/want that many, but our current setup kinda doesn't provide much by way of choices. You cast A before B before C, You don't use B or C alone because it's a waste of TP/MP/Recast/breaks a combo. So really they've removed still more choice.

But like I said, if they insist to sticking with the current ability limit, ya have to work with it. Just screaming that the whole system is garbage while others like it, then the discussion will no where.

If we all just take it as what it is and noone says anything then it WON'T get changed, at least by saying something we express that we aren't pleased with what it is now, and that we preferred the old system, or some in between place. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's not all good at all.

Obviously if each class/job has the same number of skills, and yet one of them is overpowered, then it's due to the specifics of those abilities or of the class/job, not PLD is gimp because it NEEDS 2 more abilities than war.

I wouldn't say hundreds, a lot yes, maybe a couple, or a few dozen.

I didn't mean that one job having more/less abils made it OP/UP the OP/UP thing is a ability balance issue that is far more to do w/ how stats play in and what the abil/spell does in the first place.

I didn't mean to say I need/want hundreds/job, but 25 and at the current growth rate never more than 30 because of the bar. That is less than the button mashing combos in fighting/adventure games.

To point at past FFs not one of them, even the tactics advance and Mystic quest games made for a younger crowd had only 25 abils on any job @level 50. Yes they often had Fire/Ice/Lit I/II/III Poison/Bio/Break/Dia/Slow/Stop/Freeze/Quake/Flood/Blind ... Most of them offered an AoE switch or an AoE series of the same for the ele spells, many also added Water/Aero/Stone I can't think of any that had < 8 summons, many with more than a dozen. That's ignoring chars like Gau/Tellah/Mimic who had such large spell/abil lists or such unique ones that you needed a pause to scroll the whole of them. Why should we encourage SE to take this softer/easier route.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Bumpity bump

[Shurrikhan]

Well, I wanted to give my two cents, but it ended up being way too long, so I've posted it separately here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...450#post693450

That one however uses the full elemental spell wheel for BLM/CNJ, and more soul-related / Astral-Umbral magics for Thaumaturges, as was originally the case. This is probably just because I don't especially care one way or the other as to who would be the dominant healing class pre-job, that both should have access to WHM and BLM, using previous spells + job specifics. First and foremost I want them to maintain their own themes, a Conjurer *conjuring* defenses and elements, while Thaumaturges magics lie in a more abstract Light/Dark style. As long as each fulfills the roll in a different and self-fitting manner, I couldn't care less that they can share role.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Well, I wanted to give my two cents, but it ended up being way too long, so I've posted it separately here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...450#post693450

That one however uses the full elemental spell wheel for BLM/CNJ, and more soul-related / Astral-Umbral magics for Thaumaturges, as was originally the case. This is probably just because I don't especially care one way or the other as to who would be the dominant healing class pre-job, that both should have access to WHM and BLM, using previous spells + job specifics. First and foremost I want them to maintain their own themes, a Conjurer *conjuring* defenses and elements, while Thaumaturges magics lie in a more abstract Light/Dark style. As long as each fulfills the roll in a different and self-fitting manner, I couldn't care less that they can share role.

Please correct me if I am wrong. From what I have read, it looks like a very advanced form of the combo system. Such as if a mob is weak to earth, I would cast wind first, then an earth spell? The earth debris gets picked up by the wind spell hurling it at the enemy making it do more damage than just casting earth by itself?

[Shurrikhan]

Please correct me if I am wrong. From what I have read, it looks like a very advanced form of the combo system. Such as if a mob is weak to earth, I would cast wind first, then an earth spell? The earth debris gets picked up by the wind spell hurling it at the enemy making it do more damage than just casting earth by itself?

Right. Just with a lot more uses than that. Wind could just as easily affect Water or Fire, both dispersing it and causing the Water or Fire to deal damage through the Wind medium, probably while dealing even more damage from oxygenating old flames still on targets (not carried by the Wind). It's basically taking the most primary abilities and making a versatile artistry out of them.

Paired with changes to the physical systems, it could be paired with melee attacks as well. A Lancer could open a whole in the enemy armor, seconded by a Lightning or Water then Lightning (to increase the chance of bypassing the armor / not relying on critical accuracy), to blast the armor open. A Pugilist could then Demolish from behind, sending the armor particles flying. A percentage of that armor reduction can be picked up by any Wind spells moving in or through that area of effect, adding the penetrated armor count to Wind damage as piercing / slicing damage. Etc, etc.

Edit: in that exact circumstance, the Wind would only be needed if the mob, though weak to earth, was strong vs. ground attacks (Earth medium), likely through dodging. Other ways to deal with this would be Watera, Stonera to leave the mob floundering in mud, removing most of its dodge chance or effect. Or I could freeze it in place, then using the ice in that area for additional piercing damage via an Earth spell as soon as it's free, or just batter it as much as possible while it's frozen in place (refraining from using Earth and probably Fire at that time as to not break shatter or melt the ice prematurely).

Just realized I need to make an edit to that thread, regarding critical hits...

[Jinrya-Geki]

I like it. Alot more in-depth and entertaining than spamming thunder every fight.

[Shurrikhan]

I like it. Alot more in-depth and entertaining than spamming thunder every fight.

Heh. Glad to hear it. Btw, could you by any chance leave a reply on the thread? It appears I wrote it at the time of night when no one replies to anything lengthy, and as such it's already been pushed back to page 3 in New Posts.

Sorry to have to ask, but if you could I'd really appreciate it.

[Jinrya-Geki]

People might ignore it, no love for the Red Wizard. But I will.