Elemental Spell Reform

[Duuude007]

Their argument of using Fire/Thunder/Blizzard absolutely reeks of tradition. And I will show you why:

This list shows the spells which deal direct magical damage, designed to be available to a "Black Mage" in every previous Final Fantasy title. (using most current translated versions for ease of reading).


Final Fantasy

Fire, Fira, Flare
Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard, Blizzara

Final Fantasy III

Fire, Fira, Flare
Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard, Blizzara
Quake

Final Fantasy IV

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare, Pyro
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Quake

Final Fantasy IV: The After Years

Fire?, Fire, Fira
Thunder?, Thunder, Thundara
Blizzard?, Blizzard, Blizzara
Quake

Final Fantasy V

Fire, Fire2, Fire3, Flare
Ice, Ice2, Ice3
Bolt, Bolt2, Bolt3

Final Fantasy IX

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water

Final Fantasy X

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water, Watera, Waterga

Final Fantasy X-2

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Water, Watera, Waterga

Final Fantasy XI

Fire, Firaga, Fire II, Firaga II, Fire III, Firaga III, Fire IV, Fire V, Firaja, Flare, Flare II
Thunder, Thundaga, Thunder II, Thundaga II, Thunder III, Thundaga III, Thunder IV, Thunder V, Burst, Burst II
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Blizzard II, Blizzaga II Blizzard III, Blizzaga III, Blizzard IV, Blizzard V Freeze, Freeze II
Aero, Aeroga, Aero II, Aeroga II, Aero III, Aeroga III, Aero IV, Aero V, Aeroja, Tornado, Tornado II
Stone, Stonega, Stone II, Stonega II, Stone III, Stonega III, Stone IV, Stone V, Stoneja, Quake, Quake II
Water, Waterga, Water II, Waterga II, Water III, Waterga III, Water IV, Water V, Waterja, Flood, Flood II

Final Fantasy XII

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Aero, Aeroga
Aqua

Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings

Fire, Firaga, Flare
Blizzard
Thunder

Final Fantasy Tactics

Fire, Fira, Firaga, Firaja, Flare
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga, Thundaja
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga, Blizzaja

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga

Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon

Fire, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzaga
Quake

Dissidia Final Fantasy

Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga, Burst
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Freeze
Water, Waterga, Flood
Aero, Aeroga, Tornado
Stone, Stonega, Quake

Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy

Fira, Firaga, Flare
Thunder, Thundaga, Burst
Blizzard, Blizzaga, Freeze
Water, Waterga, Flood
Aero, Aeroga, Tornado
Stone, Stonega, Quake

Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light

Fire, Fira, Firaga
Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga
Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga
Quake, Quakra, Quaga
Aero, Aerora, Aeroga
Water, Watera, Waterga
Dark, Darkra, Darkga
Banish, Banishra, Banishga

TL;DR -- Black mage spells are as follows:

Fire-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 74 entries. (26.4%)
Thunder-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 63 entries. (22.5%)
Blizzard-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 18/18 games, with 63 entries. (22.5%)
Water-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 8/18 games, with 28 entries. (10%)
Stone-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 8/18 games, with 24 entries. (8.6%)
Aero-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 5/18 games, with 22 entries. (7.9%)
Umbral-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 1/18 games, with 3 entries. (1%)
Astral-Associated direct-damage spells show up in 1/18 games, with 3 entries. (1%)

[KoujiGeki]

Honestly scrap Burst from the 15 make it a 1min 30 second recast and replace the 15 with Ultima and make in non elemental dmg unresistable. and well call it even hell ill trade the useless agas for it.

[Vaymathias]

I agree that there should be elemental reform. There also needs to be some changes to lore also, and it's best to do it sooner than later, better pre-2.0 than post, but that's another issue.

On to Fire/Lightning/Ice for thm/blm issue. I think of it as Thm/blm's having the destructive magical elements. Not that Water, earth, and wind can't be destructive, hell you could beat a person to death with a dildo if you really wanted to, but Fire/Lightning/Ice just seem more destructive by nature, while the other three seem more life giving in a way.

Part of the problem is now that if you get attacked by a bunch of mobs strong to fire, you're likely better off picking them off one at a time with Lightning, or a single strong enemy stong against Lightning, surrounded by non-aggro enemies, fire is out of the question since it's exclusively aoe.

Maybe making the elemental "wheel"s only apply to specific types of monsters such as elementals and Esper types, and to have the rest of the enemies set up on a case by case basis, with thm/blm elements in mind would really help. This would also make elemental abilities that do not belong to mages less restricting.

And/or change the way magic chaining works. Use the Stone -> Stonega concept for all elements, and also a reverse.

So for instance Fire -> Fira (aoe) would make Fira a strong single target attack, but the other way around so Fira (aoe) -> Fire would make Fire a moderate aoe attack, roughly on part with Fira (aoe). Doing this with all the elements would make sense and still be limited by the possibility that the target ends up resisting the spell keeping the player from being able to chain.

[Jinrya-Geki]

BLMs being useful for Titan is all based on the design of the fight. They could have some adds you need to sleep or an Infernal Nails situation where the AOE damage of fire really helps to kill them.

As the element system is now, as long as enemies continue to be attuned to one element only there is absolutely no fight that you will not be able to at least deal neutral damage to. Your spells are more than just different flavors of the exact same spell now, they are situational and as long as those situations are utilized then BLM will see use.

Our spell lists are going to expand sometime around or at 2.0 anyway.

I never count enfeebles in important fights like primals. They never work, and if they do land they last less than 5 seconds, and if you use it anymore in that fight, your wasting MP and time cause they won't stick anymore. The draw back of the new enfeeble system. Can already see Rdm going to be a horrible enfeebler with this system in place.

Their argument of using Fire/Thunder/Blizzard absolutely reeks of tradition. And I will show you why:

This list shows the spells which deal direct magical damage, designed to be available to a "Black Mage" in every previous Final Fantasy title. (using most current translated versions for ease of reading).

My argument to the classic FFs, unless the mob was an elemental, they weren't gonna resist the spell. And if the mob did resist one spell, say lightning, you still had a useful fire or a useful ice spell to take them down.

In this game you have Lightning that does awesome damage with combo. Fire is so-so, the mp cost really kills it. Lolice... the retarded cousin of MIAwater.