Elemental Spell Reform

[Klive]

Now we are getting philosophical and into semantics.

[Vaymathias]

Fire is as life giving as water, and water brings death just as easily as fire. the same is true for all the elements, you can defend the life giving aspects of any of them, eskimo's w/o ice and fire would be extinct ...
our food w/o fire would have a larger rate of killing us do to being uncooked.
No lightning having been harnessed? No electricity no modern tech age for us to have this argument via.
Let's let these kind of arguments go.

Well then you are clearly missing the point, since there were three people sitting behind me at Starbucks who were reading over my shoulder who agreed with me. Apparently they played and didn't understand why I wanted to buy a hot coffee to spill on them.

Point being, it's great the way it is now where the character are concerned, content needs changed to conform, but that's likely going to happen with 2.0. We already know what we all agree on and disagree on.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I cannot given an answer to that given I do not think that holds true, sorry. You could tell me why you think it does, though.

They are! Just every bit as good as thunder, I'd say! In their particular roles. For diminished damaged, Fire gains AoE and it's just as good at AoE damage as Thunder is good in ST damage (Thunder-level damage to an AoE would be overpowered), Blizzard exchanges damage for enfeebling statuses and in Blizarra's case instant cast. Blizzard is as good at enfeebling as Thunder is good at dealing damage! They have very distinct roles and are equally proficient, in their own roles.

I think it's consensus that Burst is excessively underwhelming, that one I cannot excuse but i've no experience with it. However, you need to reavail your concepts, Freeze is not a direct DD spell, but it increases your DPS considerably by reducing your enmity by a large amount. Like the rest of the Blizzard spells it's a utility, not a raw damage, spell and from what I gather it's incredibly powerful at it's role, utility and 'buff'. Flare, presumably, has an extremely high amount of damage for an AoE, so instead of paying with damage for the AoE it instead pays with target restriction.

Presumably, because White Mage is not supposed to have that powerful of a spell. Seriously, for that much power and instant cast for a job that's certainly not meant to deal damage, why, it's a suitable price. What other price would you suggest?

Presumably so cheap tactics like 'stunlocking' aren't usable and so that 'trench battles' become an uphill challange, making the playerbase shy away from excessively long, drawn-out battles and adding a more dynamic element to battle. Wether they implemented that correctly or failed at it, I cannot say, but it's possible to discern the intent of it.

SE made it so I have to cross-class only aero and stone over from Cjn, that automatically makes them less effective for me. What it should be is if you want to solo, you should be penalized to cross classing, that way you get to solo and get penalized for it, and I would have all the elemental spells and have variety other than thunder line.

Ice sucks period. It's not useful at all, it's an enfeeble. They made enfeebles worthless. No one notices this because no one uses them. It's all spam fire on trash mobs. Fire is not MP sufficient as Thunder line, and neither is it's damage since it's not bad on Intelligence like thundara when comboed. If there was a reform I would hope that all the spells when comboed are Intelligence based. Seriously use sleepga once on a group of Ixali, then hit them with fire and try to sleep them again.

Ancient magic spells...should be the highest grade of spells. When have you seen a Final Fantasy where Freeze, Flare, Tornado, Quake(break), Burst didn't do pure damage. Freeze,flare, burst should be renamed frost, burn, and shock. They aren't the real deal magic spells that everyone knows them for. Which is purely high damage, not enfeebles.

Holy, should be god damn amazing for all your mp. I do love how all these white mage/conjurers say "we don't need magic acc". Ok cool then you shouldn't have Aero/Stone it's wasted on you. It should be on the class that uses Mag acc. "Oh but we need that to solo" and this leads back to solo taking priority over party play somehow.

I wouldn't use stun enfeeble over my damage dealing ability. Cause enfeebles sucks. They. Don't. Work. There is no dynamic fight, it's all come back to zerging. Looks at Princess, look at moogles, look Ixali camps, when do you ever see sleepga go off.

With how you worded things like "presumably" and "no experience" I take it you don't play Blm/Thm?

[Skies]

I only have my Thaumaturge at level... 14 was it? IT's in my signature. I do play Conjurer, however, and the last boss fight my LS actually won I was playing it

I think you also literally illustrated the reason why enfeebles why the way they do right now right there in your example about the Ixali. They're high-level mobs, that attack in a huge band, you're seriously not supposed to solo that stuff, but if Enfeebles were in fact as powerful as you want them to be they'd be easily soloable as a Thaumaturge.

Although speaking of it, have you tried the strategy of 'sleepga the lot, pick them off one by one with Thunder'?

Also- WHY, in heaven's name, needs the 'spells that carry the Ancient Magic spell names' invariably be DD? Why can't they be powerful support spells? Is that a legacy term issue? Because that that's pretty silly and, sincerely, a choice left to style alone, you can't say that any of the three short of Burst is not working their potential.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I only have my Thaumaturge at level... 14 was it? IT's in my signature. I do play Conjurer, however, and the last boss fight my LS actually won I was playing it

I think you also literally illustrated the reason why enfeebles why the way they do right now right there in your example about the Ixali. They're high-level mobs, that attack in a huge band, you're seriously not supposed to solo that stuff, but if Enfeebles were in fact as powerful as you want them to be they'd be easily soloable as a Thaumaturge.

Although speaking of it, have you tried the strategy of 'sleepga the lot, pick them off one by one with Thunder'?

Also- WHY, in heaven's name, needs the 'spells that carry the Ancient Magic spell names' invariably be DD? Why can't they be powerful support spells? Is that a legacy term issue? Because that that's pretty silly and, sincerely, a choice left to style alone, you can't say that any of the three short of Burst is not working their potential.

That's my point about the enfeebles, when it matters it doesn't work. Picking off an Ixali one at a time is not a good idea. One you'll waste MP really quickly, two when they wake up you'll probably be inclined to try a dark seal sleepga, which will still not help it last longer. They will wake up at once again and you'll probably have extremely low MP and die. And you can't Sleepga as Thm so you can't afford to fight more than one at a time.

Lastly, why should Ancient magic spells be purely damage dealing? Because everyone loves to throw around traditions, such as Whm having Aero. So I am throwing this into the mix that Ancient magic spells have always be the highest form of magic damage dealing it and should be that way. The only time I use Freeze is to reduce my agro not good damage unless you critical hit, even then it's not that great. Flare is stupid, for trash mobs only, use it against someone like coincounter or Chimera you'll probably die.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Bump, need some developer responses.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Bumpity bump.

[KoujiGeki]

Yes Ancient Magic has always been the end all huge dmg huge mp cost spells that you cant just spam all the time.

[Jinrya-Geki]

So from the silence of the developer team, I take it that there are no plans for even in 2.0 for black mage/ Thaumaturge getting spell changes. Or that a spell reform is even being considered, because splitting the elements was not a good idea.

Just say there are no currents plans even in 2.0 so I can quit now. I am tired of using 1 spell for everything. If this isn't gonna change then I might as well quit.

[Vaymathias]

So your going to quit because the Devs are not bowing down to you and kissing your feet? Since you're a Lalafell it might be a little difficult, especially if one of them are a Roegadyn, he'll have to lay on his stomach, and he'd be able to fit your entire leg into his mouth.

If that's your attitude, then quit. Whether the change it or not, doesn't matter, it's a game, it can be justified in many ways, and it's the content that's important relative to the set up.