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  1. #1
    Player
    Recon1o6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    362
    Character
    Avarnia Corthal
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 80

    For future job design: We should have some heal buttons merged/cut/revert to utility

    The actual healing kit of all 3 healers is fairly solid as far as healing kits go. So good in fact that a lot of it is redundant due to various factors.
    Everyone wants more damage or utility buttons. Detractors are crying "but there will be button bloat" its utter rubbish really, just look at the current healing kits. Everyone said on shb launch any new healing would be useless, and lo and behold that's what came to pass.

    Note: raises do not count as healing for the purpose of this post. It would just up the numbers unneccessarily

    WHM
    Total healing buttons: 14
    GCD heals: 8 (cure, cure 2, cure 3, medica, medica 2, regen, affla sol, affla rap)
    oGCD: 6 (bene, tetra, asylum, plenary, assize, Divine benison)
    Aoe heals: 7
    Single target heals: 7

    SCH
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Physick, adloquium, succor, aetherpact)
    oGCD: 7 (Embrace, sacred soil, indomitability, excog, fey bless, consolation)
    Aoe heals: 6
    Single target heals: 5

    Note: wasn't sure if deployment tactics or emergency tactics counted as heals or not. especially emergency

    AST
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Benefic, benefic 2, helios, asp helios)
    oGCD: 7 (Asp bene, essential, collective uncon, celes opposition, earth star, celes intersect, horoscope)
    Aoe heals: 7
    Single target heals: 4


    We really don't need all these healing buttons. The incoming damage just doesn't warrant it.

    Some of these should be merged into upgrades (cure into cure 2)
    some should revert back to being utility (celestial opposition)
    some could be cut and replaced with something vital or fun that was lost (I'll trade you fey blessing for shadowflare or bane any day)
    (4)
    Last edited by Recon1o6; 10-18-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    AnotherPerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    184
    Character
    Cain Andleft
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post

    SCH
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Physick, adloquium, succor, aetherpact)
    oGCD: 7 (Embrace, sacred soil, indomitability, excog, fey bless, consolation)
    Aoe heals: 6
    Single target heals: 5
    Note: wasn't sure if deployment tactics or emergency tactics counted as heals or not. especially emergency
    Deploy is a shield and is actually kinda useful in ShB leveling gear from 71 to 79 because you're missing out on your major healing skills Summon Seraph + Consolation x2. Once your gear gets better and finally get the lv 80 capstone Seraph, it's less of an issue but it's still nice to have for that quick shield deploy in trash pulls before then. Of course, its usefulness has been largely worsened since you can't deploy off faerie for back to back raidwides, nor can deploy work on your other shields besides Galvanize so it's kinda meh to say it's an actual oGCD heal.

    I wouldn't really treat Embrace as a good oGCD - at lv 50 it's powerful and lv 60 it's still very good. By level 70 and 80, Embrace's healing effect has been lowered significantly with the increased HP values since it also fights for Aetherpact's healing as only one of them can be active at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post
    AST
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Benefic, benefic 2, helios, asp helios)
    oGCD: 7 (Asp bene, essential, collective uncon, celes opposition, earth star, celes intersect, horoscope)
    Aoe heals: 7
    Single target heals: 4
    Aspected Benefic is not an oGCD heal - it's an instant GCD healing skill.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rosa_Frandlia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    184
    Character
    Rosa Frandlia
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post
    The actual healing kit of all 3 healers is fairly solid as far as healing kits go. So good in fact that a lot of it is redundant due to various factors.
    Everyone wants more damage or utility buttons. Detractors are crying "but there will be button bloat" its utter rubbish really, just look at the current healing kits. Everyone said on shb launch any new healing would be useless, and lo and behold that's what came to pass.

    Note: raises do not count as healing for the purpose of this post. It would just up the numbers unneccessarily

    WHM
    Total healing buttons: 14
    GCD heals: 8 (cure, cure 2, cure 3, medica, medica 2, regen, affla sol, affla rap)
    oGCD: 6 (bene, tetra, asylum, plenary, assize, Divine benison)
    Aoe heals: 7
    Single target heals: 7

    SCH
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Physick, adloquium, succor, aetherpact)
    oGCD: 7 (Embrace, sacred soil, indomitability, excog, fey bless, consolation)
    Aoe heals: 6
    Single target heals: 5

    Note: wasn't sure if deployment tactics or emergency tactics counted as heals or not. especially emergency

    AST
    Total healing buttons: 11
    GCD heals: 4 (Benefic, benefic 2, helios, asp helios)
    oGCD: 7 (Asp bene, essential, collective uncon, celes opposition, earth star, celes intersect, horoscope)
    Aoe heals: 7
    Single target heals: 4


    We really don't need all these healing buttons. The incoming damage just doesn't warrant it.

    Some of these should be merged into upgrades (cure into cure 2)
    some should revert back to being utility (celestial opposition)
    some could be cut and replaced with something vital or fun that was lost (I'll trade you fey blessing for shadowflare or bane any day)
    Do you mean 5 oGCD for WHM? Divine Benison isn't actually a heal and is just a shield. If you don't count deploy on SCH you shouldn't count Divine Benison on WHM.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Lyrica_Ashtine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,128
    Character
    Lyrica Ashtine
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 80
    No need to nitpick on mistakes like that while the issue presented still stands.

    As for the topic: Yes, give healers their utility back.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    362
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia View Post
    Do you mean 5 oGCD for WHM? Divine Benison isn't actually a heal and is just a shield. If you don't count deploy on SCH you shouldn't count Divine Benison on WHM.
    Technically Divine Benison can be counted as a "healing" oGCD because it is a standalone ability compared to Deployment Tactics (which could be counted as a 375 * x potency "extender", but I digress), but it also has a potency of 500. If we think of shields as an expansion of max HP, then it would be just as worth as a 500 potency heal, barring mechanics that require HP thresholds (like Blackhole, Terror Unleashed, etc).

    In terms of metrics on a site we don't mention, shields count as healing.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    341
    Character
    Hiro'to Rakuun
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    A problem I feel right now is that we kinda have "dead" buttons with certain heals just being so far down the totem pole that they virtually never get used for experienced healers, yet they're also important tools for early game and for people learning healer who are making mistakes and need security in spells like regular Cure and Medica. I'd like to see healing tools get reworked collectively to redesign them in a way where there are less tools and the old tools receive more upgrades to keep them relevant. It doesn't just have to be passively upgrading those tools either. You can give them conditionals that make them better in certain situations, so as a healer, you may need to set up your healing for optimal use with some tools.

    Additionally, I think it would be a good thing if we took some focus away from OGCD healing. We have so much of it across all healers, and OGCD healing functions essentially to add DPS time to healers. We already have massive DPS windows for experienced healers based on boss damage alone, and having more reasons to maximize that window isn't necessary.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    593
    Character
    Oscha Balthasar
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    They can "prune" cure1/bene1 and medica/helios into their "evolved" spells, thus freeing 1 st and 1 aoe heal button for these 2 healers, because honestly who even casts these nowadays? If I'm running OOM enough to have to use those, it just means the group is either dying waaay more than they should, or there must be some overhealing going on.

    They can just use this free space for more utility for those Jobs.

    I also feel that the faerie/seraph actions are way too many. Maybe the seraph actions can be the regular faerie actions "evolved" when the seraph is summoned.

    WHM could really use a dps dump for lilies, just like SCH can dump excess aetherflow when the ability is about to come off cooldown.

    As for AST... I really feel that the job is right now is extremely bland for 2 reasons:
    1) the whole aspected mechanic of either a regen/shield. It works? Maybe... yes. But it really feels like there's a lack of character there, and that this was only designed to balance the other 2 jobs. I'd love an actual unique niche for AST other than that.
    2) the cards... are just damage buffs! This feels way too watered down. I like the fact that you can rotate the card usage between 2 different dpsers as opposed to just speding everything in the same person as before... But why just a damage buff? I'd let that just for Horoscope and bring back actual utility to the cards on top of the damage buff they bring, so you would have to think a bit on specific people to use them. Having the dmg buff on top of that wouldn't make the card usage a total loss in case you didn't have the "perfect" target. *Edit: someone said in another thread that players would just min max again the cards based on their secondary buffs... While that might be true, then an actual solution, just make these secondary buffs all defensive buffs, to actually complement the healing. Or even better, just make them all support defensive (Mp regen, moving speed, less dmg taken) and focus on the dps buffs being behind the Lady and Lord cards.

    I honestly hope 6.0 brings something very interesting for healers with the inevitable addition of the fourth job.11
    (4)
    Last edited by Raikai; 10-28-2020 at 02:34 AM.