Thread: Dancer 6.0 Speculation

So outside of the physical ranged DPS damage as a whole being very low, Dancer is largely in an amazing spot with very few areas to complain about for those of us who enjoy the playstyle. There are a few areas that could use some improvement of course, like a way to extend the duration of Flourish buffs so that there's no fear of losing them during our burst window if we get too many Sabre Dance, but otherwise it doesn't feel like we need any major change to what we already have.

The question I have is where could we expand?

I have a strong feeling we'll be getting some kind of single target Sabre Dancer (Dancer Xenoglossy), but what about new elements toward gameplay?

Something I have been thinking about for aesthetics would be something like a Phoenix Dance that upgrades our Fan Dances from peacock feathers into phoenix feathers. I think the fiery dancer would be a cool aesthetic to have. As far as mechanics, I'd like to see that work in a way to give us a phase of guaranteed feather procs. Specifically, I'd like to see this be something we're doing halfway between one Technical Step and the next.

As it stands, we have a very heavy burst window every 2 minutes, but inbetween that can be a little slow at times, especially if you get some bad RNG with procs. Having some kind of mini burst that can somehow trigger between Technical Steps would feel better, I think, then just adding more to technical step burst windows, but that's just my opinion.

I'm curious what other dancers are interested in seeing happen with our kit.

I'd like to see Flourish be a 30 second cooldown.

Now I know what you're thinking. "We're already running into situations where we have to drop procs and you want more procs?" Yes I do.

The reasoning is that I think dancer is one of those jobs, much like other RNG jobs, focused on making right decisions, given the circumstances. One of the main complaint's I have heard about dancer is that outside of the 2 min Technical Finish burst window, there's a lot of 1/2 and sometimes only 1/2 if you get unlucky. Bringing Flourish to 30 seconds would mean that at most, you'd have 4 GCDs of downtime between procs (really just 2 GCDs because standard takes 2 GCDs to use). What this would mean gameplay wise is, you'd certainly always have procs and never really dabble in the combo system unless you get very unlucky with Esprit and even then, you won't be unlucky for long. RNG jobs work well when they can play by quantity to avoid heavy swings towards good or bad RNG, allowing them to average out. So the more procs you can throw, the more you can average out their performance without having massive swings between runs.

This would also put certain emphasis on decision making which is a fun part of current dancer, but is only felt currently, when you get too lucky. For example, with reduced Flourish CD, you might end up in a situation where you might often end up in a situation where you would want to drop procs to use Saber Dance but also end up in situations where you'd want to stay capped on Esprit and get finish using all procs. It also allows for some flexibility with Flourish instead of it being uniquely a 1 minute CD.

Furthermore, it would also add some more complexity into dancer naturally, as you now have twice as many AoE procs to unload every minute than before and that means having to plan its usages or perhaps forgo them for Sabers.

Just this one change would add quite a bit of depth to dancer without making it any harder to pickup, which I think is a good thing.

Aside from that a minor change would be making it so Standard and Tech Finishes either never Crit or Direct Hit, or always do. Having such a high potency hit Direct Hit Crit is equivalent to another use and causes too much variability and thus makes it hard to balance. Other jobs like PLD suffer from this with Confiteor but while the number of jobs are few, the negative effect is still too much.

There's also removing the improv requirement of needing people, because it's silly.

All in all, I'm unsure what they can do to dancer after these proposed changes. The job is complete for the most part as is. I know there's a suggestion to make Saber Dance extend procs, but I feel like that would make dancer too simple. I think having to make a decision is what makes dancer nuanced versus straightforward.

Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Aside from that a minor change would be making it so Standard and Tech Finishes either never Crit or Direct Hit, or always do. Having such a high potency hit Direct Hit Crit is equivalent to another use and causes too much variability and thus makes it hard to balance. Other jobs like PLD suffer from this with Confiteor but while the number of jobs are few, the negative effect is still too much.

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Don't make me grab the spray bottle

Originally Posted by Moenblyss

Don't make me grab the spray bottle

Soon TM

I think with the stat crunch, it might be more likely than not. Good time to rework direct hit again and normalize damage rather than RNG it.

Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Good time to rework direct hit again and normalize damage rather than RNG it.

Or just... remove it.

Honestly, I kind of wish they'd bother only with Haste, Critical Hit, and some manner of job-specific, uniquely proc-affecting stat, each scaled different on each job to open up further gearing options and no screw certain jobs over on otherwise particularly poorly optimized gear tiers.

Tired of stats almost always being Crit > (DHit) > Det > Speed with only the last even having an impact on gameplay, rather than merely numbers.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Or just... remove it.

Honestly, I kind of wish they'd bother only with Haste, Critical Hit, and some manner of job-specific, uniquely proc-affecting stat, each scaled different on each job to open up further gearing options and no screw certain jobs over on otherwise particularly poorly optimized gear tiers.

Tired of stats almost always being Crit > (DHit) > Det > Speed with only the last even having an impact on gameplay, rather than merely numbers.

Gimme, like, the Armor skill system from MH fit to FF14.

Substat ranks with flat bonuses (None of this 3712 rating), and give milestone perks / actions at certain ranks.

I would like to see a higher proc rate on four fold feathers so the job can be a bit busier in its down time between its major burst phases. Mobility tax has always been a poor execuse for ranged DPS having such low damage, and ranged DPS should be doing much closer to comparable DPS to the other jobs. The way you make it fair is you make them press far more buttons per minute and have to play at a higher tempo than any other job since they are able to keep their rotation going no matter what (Machinist is making good on this and while Bard took a hit on it's APM this expansion it's still one of the higher ones). I would also like to see a third step to the proc of the combo's, one ability that you can proc off either Fountainfall or Reverse Cascade, and if you manage to get that proc, a hit on the boss guarantees a Fourfold Feather. A similar third step to the AOE's would be nice too.

If not a higher proc rate on the feathers then I would mimic Rai's call for a lower cool down timer on Flourish, just something so that the peaks and valleys between Dancers fast and slow moments are so insanely steep. A change to the way Improv gets Espirit is of course still absolutely necessary as it has been since day one. I also know others would disagree but I'd like a single Dot to manage as well, I don't want to turn it into Bard or Summoner, but to me jobs miss out on something without a dot to manage. I really miss lead shot on Mch. Even if it's something longer and simple to put on like Higanbana for Samurai. Outside of that nothing to major Dancer has a very strong concept for a job, much like Red Mage, the foundation is perfectly set, now they just need to give it a few things to really allow for a skilled player to flex their muscles on the job.

I like another dance, a 3 step one that does huge burst dmg like the others but causes debuffs to go on anything hit, I'd think 10% reduction in damage dealt, be on a 180s cd so keeps busy work as low as possible after opener to every 6 mins in a fight.

Sabre Dance to be ogcd.

Closed position available at level 50 at the latest(love if level 15 but May just be even more overkill)

Personally I'd like to lean more on dancer having debuffs but not DoTs going forward I think as a buffer we are very solid

Obviously anything added to dancer would result in Brd and Mch getting an equivalent type of skill or flat out more damage as compensation.