Thread: Dancer 6.0 Speculation

Originally Posted by Jirah

id like to hear more of this input

For further context on why I feel the DNC should go the route of high risk burster type.

As we already know, Step Finishes do more damage the closer we are to the targets, since they operate as a fading PBaOE that gets weaker the further the target is away from the DNCs position on triggering the finish, Flourish encourages further to fight up close two use both our melee procs and Blade Shower is further encouragement still.

Throw in our current "best" partners for Closed Dance are typically Melee dps (SAM/MNK/NIN) it's further encouragement to fight in close quarters as often as possible.

Throughout ShB I've tried to play DNC a variety of ways, but it's an inescapable truth that the very core mechanics in their kit are built around getting in close and personal and not stood back at range

This is where the identity crisis really hits home with the job, the desire to be something they aren't which pushes against what they are and what they inevitably should be in future.

They're range taxed, just like every ranged class yet spend the majority of every fight in melee or close to it.

They're support taxed because they have support abilities meaning their higher risk isn't rewarded if their partner isn't performing.

They're mobility taxed, which yes, this tax is fair, they're perhaps the most mobile job having a 3 charges omnidirectional dash.

They're heal taxed because their heal is a "group heal", not a personal one.


As I said, for me, I want them to make a decision on what they clearly want us to be from our core kit design and not bog us down with cannibalized supportive skills that don't mesh well with the core philosophy of the jobs current playstyle design.

Originally Posted by Jirah

snip

This is the set of changes I'd probably look at, most of them likely wouldn't happen without some sort of rework.

Give us a range Cap of 25 Yalms matching up to Sabre Dance for all our range, Auto Attack, Cascade, Reverse Cascade, Fountain and Fountain fall

Move Sabre dance to an OGCD

Add a Bleed effect to one of our skills, Fountainfall seems like a good candidate

Remove the ranged tax on all DNC potency's

Curing Waltz removed, replaced with bloodbath

Devilment remains as is.

Improvisation reworked to work similar to Accelerate, while Flourish switches on your procs, Improvisation guarantees they'll generate Four Fold Feathers or Fan Dance will proc Fan Dance III (obviously it can't be used for all procs active as that would be overpowered, 3 seems fair)

Since Dancer has the lowest personal damage it should be reworked a bit just like how machinist or monk.

- rng on main skills should vanish so no more 50% to get a combo skill (which dmg is low as it is even if it procs) yet leave rng on the feather aspect
- flourish should either give at the start 4feathers or work like RDM accelerate allowing to get 1 feather for next 4attacks
- curing waltz potency up/CD timer down since such low potency for such a long CD is just bad
- add bleed dot to one of the combo skills or to sabre dance
- adding a single target esprit skill with high potency would be nice
- adding raise/revive/phoenix dance for the cost of 100esprit for a single target/partner or a small 5yrd zone revive (you exchange dps for support)
- lowering closed position skill level from 50 to 20/30 since its a core skill as a dancer and it would help lower level players to get a bit more dmg in old dungeons
- fan3 is a 100% proc after each feather
- sabre dance (esprit skills) cut from GCD and placed as oGCD so it doesnt choke rotations

- Imrprovisation skill needs more rewok, like after using it you are bound to the spot like always but you create something like a "stage". Like before, the more people are around you yo gain more espirt, but it would also adds feathers (4feather for full skill cycle). As for everyone on the stage they get buffed with "dmg up and healing potency up" so it would kinda make people want to be on the stage to buff themself but also help you gain resources in the process.

Other option for improvisation would be like how the name tells, you stand in a place like before gaining esprit but you are pressing dance moves in order in the 16sec gap to increase stacks (up to 8moves) on your finishing move. Kinda for all correctly pressed moves in the 16sec gap you get a 3k potency attack as finisher, each mistake or moveing would cancel the skill up and get you a 500-600pot as a fail prize.

Dancer over the whole expansion was not shown any love/buffs/changes/fixes/reworks since the class needs to get close for aoe skills its more of a risk one compared to mch and bard who can spam from far away, yet its suffering from lowest dmg syndrome.

Originally Posted by Nepthys

Since Dancer has the lowest personal damage it should be reworked a bit just like how machinist or monk.

- rng on main skills should vanish so no more 50% to get a combo skill (which dmg is low as it is even if it procs) yet leave rng on the feather aspect
- flourish should either give at the start 4feathers or work like RDM accelerate allowing to get 1 feather for next 4attacks
- curing waltz potency up/CD timer down since such low potency for such a long CD is just bad
- add bleed dot to one of the combo skills or to sabre dance
- adding a single target esprit skill with high potency would be nice
- adding raise/revive/phoenix dance for the cost of 100esprit for a single target/partner or a small 5yrd zone revive (you exchange dps for support)
- lowering closed position skill level from 50 to 20/30 since its a core skill as a dancer and it would help lower level players to get a bit more dmg in old dungeons
- fan3 is a 100% proc after each feather
- sabre dance (esprit skills) cut from GCD and placed as oGCD so it doesnt choke rotations

- Imrprovisation skill needs more rewok, like after using it you are bound to the spot like always but you create something like a "stage". Like before, the more people are around you yo gain more espirt, but it would also adds feathers (4feather for full skill cycle). As for everyone on the stage they get buffed with "dmg up and healing potency up" so it would kinda make people want to be on the stage to buff themself but also help you gain resources in the process.

Other option for improvisation would be like how the name tells, you stand in a place like before gaining esprit but you are pressing dance moves in order in the 16sec gap to increase stacks (up to 8moves) on your finishing move. Kinda for all correctly pressed moves in the 16sec gap you get a 3k potency attack as finisher, each mistake or moveing would cancel the skill up and get you a 500-600pot as a fail prize.

Dancer over the whole expansion was not shown any love/buffs/changes/fixes/reworks since the class needs to get close for aoe skills its more of a risk one compared to mch and bard who can spam from far away, yet its suffering from lowest dmg syndrome.

I've taken a decently clean run on e5s last tier and did some calculations.
I've only taken into account the RNG and Sabre Dance changes because those were the most specific ones with clear potencies attached. So no Flourish change, added bleed or Impro change taken into account.
It was roughly a 20% pDPS buff which is more than the gap between DNC and BLM at any given percentile and put my 80% run on par with a BLM, the strongest dps in e5s, playing at 95%. I've been specifically taking BLM to emphasize the insane buff this would mean because e5s was a very BLM-friendly fight, meaning it was an almost perfect scenario for it and can only get worse in pretty much every other fight.

That was not taking into account further buffs from Flourish, a dot added for free and Impro change, mind you.
Nor how much more valuable additional heal support or the option to ress for a dps loss is and how attractive it would make DNC compared to the other physical ranged.

Originally Posted by JanVanding

For further context on why I feel the DNC should go the route of high risk burster type.

As we already know, Step Finishes do more damage the closer we are to the targets, since they operate as a fading PBaOE that gets weaker the further the target is away from the DNCs position on triggering the finish, Flourish encourages further to fight up close two use both our melee procs and Blade Shower is further encouragement still.

Yes you want to be close for the procs, but that is not how dances work at all. They do the same damage point blank as they do at max range.

On topic the main thing I want to see from 6.0 is a reworked improv, it's boring and honestly just awful compared to the other "downtime" buttons. The most use it gets is weaving it for the healing bonus