Thread: Dancer 6.0 Speculation

Originally Posted by Jirah

I think eveyone misread my critique, CW is useful in certain situations but the practice of hitting it every 60 seconds doesnt make DNC complex. DNC needs somthing and if it gets treated like RDM in SHB itll begin to stagnate and people will be upset thier job has no new toys to use

By definition having extra things to do and think about makes it more complex. It's not hitting it every 60 seconds, it's hitting it where it makes an impact which is seldom on cooldown and instead something you coordinate with your healers. Of course your healers appreciate it more the better players they are as they can take advantage of it instead of overhealing. This doesn't mean it puts dancer up as the harders job period period. Just means it's another layer to the optimization onion. A layer that doesn't exist for the other ranged and by comparison of the three, shows DNC has more nuance and as a result complexity.

Funnily enough RDM is also similar (at least based on SB experience). Since RNG jobs don't have a rotation/script to follow, some can find it hard to play, let alone optimize because it's a different skillset. RNG prioritizes decision making, while rotations prioritize memory. A few friends I helped pick up DNC switched over to MCH because they don't do well decision making and they like rotations.

Originally Posted by Nepthys

Dancer needs some changes like:

- improvisation is just baaad, almost never a spot to use it, cant move, loads slow, requires a lot of teamates near us. Could be a self buff or add new feature of loading feathers
- rngs procs needs to go up or at least make it so that next round of the skill will increase the rng procentage so if we fail to get a proc/feather next skill will have increased by 10-15% chance to get it and so on till 100%
- potencies needs to go up, at least on the feathers (like fan3) that are covered in huge pile of RNG, so if we are lucky and get it then be worth it.
- sabre dance being just a esprit dump is just bad...we need more skills we can use our esprit on:
* they should add a single target attack with potency of 800-850 that costs 50esprit
* if our damage is the lowest from all classes then why not give a revive skill that costs 100esprit, be it partner revive or a close proximity group revive...kinda we sacrafice a lot of dps for support.
* regen skill to party or partner only
- why not get bleading dot chance from bloodshower
-curring walts increase potency to 600 or lowe CD.

RNGs are the nasty pile since there are times that over 5-10x doing 1-2-3-4 you wont get a feather its frustrating.

This is why I like lower cd on flourish because it fixes the proc RNG issue by tightening it. You can still have 99% proc rate but you WILL have runs with 1% stacking RNG, so just doing it via 30 second flourish means you can't have a bad rng run by actually really bad.

However I think Saber is fine as is. We could have another esprit dumb that is AoE of our character instead of target that is the same potency as Saber with the same rules. Why? Because sometimes targetting is better and convenient and sometimes it's not and that's when having the option of self AoE is nice.

I do think curing could be a reduced CD so it encourages more uses from dancers to be influential.

Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

This is why I like lower cd on flourish because it fixes the proc RNG issue by tightening it. You can still have 99% proc rate but you WILL have runs with 1% stacking RNG, so just doing it via 30 second flourish means you can't have a bad rng run by actually really bad.

It would def. make it better. My suggestion though was to make Flourish have 100% feather chance on its Flourished abilities, this would essentially make Flourish an on-demand feather generator for right before TS phases, even if it meant to increase the cooldown a bit. This would basically make feather usage more reliable and flexible outside of TS phases and the rotation a bit less boring. Sometimes if you're unlucky you can spend a lot of time still getting those 3 feathers, without anything to weave.

If DNCs would get a rez, I think it would be better to have it as something like a "Phoenix Step" 2-move dance that shares a recast with Standard Step. Having a rez being gated on 100 esprit (or even at 4 feathers) would make the raise quite unreliable, because both resources don't come regularly on demand, unless the rezzing situation happened on a burst phase.

Originally Posted by Nepthys

Dancer needs some changes like:

- improvisation is just baaad, almost never a spot to use it, cant move, loads slow, requires a lot of teamates near us. Could be a self buff or add new feature of loading feathers
- rngs procs needs to go up or at least make it so that next round of the skill will increase the rng procentage so if we fail to get a proc/feather next skill will have increased by 10-15% chance to get it and so on till 100%
- potencies needs to go up, at least on the feathers (like fan3) that are covered in huge pile of RNG, so if we are lucky and get it then be worth it.
- sabre dance being just a esprit dump is just bad...we need more skills we can use our esprit on:
* they should add a single target attack with potency of 800-850 that costs 50esprit
* if our damage is the lowest from all classes then why not give a revive skill that costs 100esprit, be it partner revive or a close proximity group revive...kinda we sacrafice a lot of dps for support.
* regen skill to party or partner only
- why not get bleading dot chance from bloodshower
-curring walts increase potency to 600 or lowe CD.

RNGs are the nasty pile since there are times that over 5-10x doing 1-2-3-4 you wont get a feather its frustrating.

Me likes allot. I agree with you. I main summoner but dancer is my second go to and I would like curing waltz to have its cooldown lowered significantly. Red mage heals for allot more than we do and they can spam it. We can only use it once every 60 seconds. Kinda ridiculous.

I've been playing DNC since I've swapped from healer in my static. I do love the job fantasy (almost wished what it could have been healer wise), though there's room for improvement.

Esprit as it stands has one use and that's for Saber Dance. There should be more options and I do think they'll add a ST version as well (WHM will probably get one too for Misery).

Some additional things they could do to make DNC feel more "support" is to make use of the Esprit meter since sometimes you can get a lot of it. On top of the obvious GCD spenders, I think we could also spare for some OGCD ones.

1. Invigorating Waltz. AoE or small AoE regen perhaps. 10-20 Esprit. 60s CD.

2. Enfeebling Tango. A DoT field (15s) centered around the DNC. 20 Esprit. 30s CD.

That's about it I can think of for now for spenders. I feel that they wouldn't add too many anyway, at least in 1 xpac. I will say that Esprit might need to be adjusted to make some of these possible or realistic.

As for improving or adding general non-esprit abilities, I have a couple.

1. Refreshing Samba. AoE cleanse. (This one might be too much since SCH had its removed). 120s CD.

2. Improvisation (Revised). I have two ideas. How it is now kinda sucks is only really useful in fights with actual downtime.

- a. AoE increased healing (both OGCD and GCD kinda like Asylum for 15s). 180s CD.

- b. Temporarily extends DNC partner to an additional DPS for 30s. 180s CD.

I don't think they'll really change up DNC too much tbh, since there are other jobs that desperately need more love. I think they're satisfied with the current state of it.

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I also think we should have a full 4 feather dump since on occasion you end up with procs remaining but you've got loads of time to the next technical step. Perhaps a buff/debuff plus attack as compensation for losing possible fan dance 3s in addition to fan dance 1/2

My understanding is that you should always aim to be 3 feathers before TS phases, even if it's pretty far away, and use the last feather as an oGCD through your rotation as you obtain them. If you - really - want to, you can just weave or double weave them in between your GCDs and get rid of every feather in a few seconds, there's no need for a 4-feather dump to be created unless they made feather income less random, as it is gated between the proc of the proc.

I’m predicting DNC will stagnate abit, and get like 2 useless skills and a revamp to a older one.

The jobs simple nature makes it tricky to add onto it

I'd like to see 2nd version of closed position that's another type of dance style completely a la ballroom dancing.

I'd also like to see a free step. Where we can use the dance skills outside of our step routines in non combat.

I'd also like to see a custom step where we can combine both standard and technical step for a dot based attack of the combined damage potency. This would be a six step dance.

I'd also like to see a type of closed position that based on who your partner is you could do like a combined move or a different style of dance. So like Black Mage could do Fire Dancing, Dragoon could be a Dragon or Pole type dance, Samurai could be Sword Dancing ect. The effects could all be different but the damage, and potency wouldn't change.