Simple Fix to PLD

[Raze]

Sorry I just came back from the oooold days several months ago and like a lot of people I was a bit disappointed in Paladin. I've been toying around with some ideas ever since. I'm sorry if my info is wrong in some parts but I'll give it a try ^^

(this is sort of a mix of several ideas in the thread)

Damage taken should have some bearing on enmity loss. When you "hate" something and give it a good slap, you should get a feeling of satisfaction, and that would make you less angry at the target. (sorry for the real world example, but it's such a basic idea I have no idea why it's not in the game)

This would lead into my second idea, which isn't really mine since I believe a magic defense stance has already been mentioned, probably more than once but I only got to page 50000 of this thread before I just decided to post. There could be a magical defense(anything non-physical) action, similar to rampart (I don't really care about the "massive enmity", and also make it sword specific) though. It could last semi-long, and have a reasonable recast, although the key would be to make it either cast on the PLD only or just make it much more potent on him/her than other pt members.

In conjunction with the primals being basically magic, the less hate lost when hit.

Then a situation like this could arise:

-AoE magic attack with magic barrier skill up
-another player (let's say WAR ^^) takes more than twice the damage you do.
-you cast holy succor on the WAR and restore the HP of both, the WAR loses some hate while you gain a ton.

that should satisfy the people with enm problems anyway too.

lastly, swing sword faster, with a bit faster TP build. Reduce shield bash to 15 sec recast to satisfy the people who like fighting with shield. this should keep a nice base hate rate while you use other actions and slightly raise dmg output(I'm not sure how hate works on shield bash anymore, I'd suggest less enmity per bash in this situation).

This would make PLD a nice finesse class you could be proud of, and open to different builds/play styles, while not impacting WAR fans, since a WAR could still make a fantastic speed tank while being able to tank physical mobs, albeit with a little more effort (I love WAR btw so don't think I'm a hater, just don't want it to be the only option).

TL;DR: Don't bother, I'm sure a lot is wrong and too intricate to implement

Sorry for writing this 1000 page novel on the boards.

[Enfarious]

Yep the other night, last even, I went to knock out BLM body fight, went on PLD cause I like shiny, got raped, switched to WAR it was a joke. I'm almost positive this means something isn't balanced.

I know there hasn't been an "I hate change" post here in the last 50 or so but:
Stop claiming everything in the game is "Ok" SE agrees that things aren't "Ok", Yoshi tells us regularly that things need improvement, constructive criticism, even of your "heroes" is important. It's how, as the people paying for this endeavor, we get to see some return on our time and money. You do realize it's our money that makes this all possible, for that we should be able to get something we truly enjoy. I don't expect to "love" every aspect of every system in place, but like in XI I will leave what I don't like alone, content wise, things that will simply take too long for me to do in a realistic time frame will be ignored, but I shouldn't ever look at things and say "Well I think this could be improved, but I'll say it's ok the way it is because I don't think anyone should ever have to change what's already here." If that's the approach people take then nothing good would ever come of these forums, or the desire that has been shown to "please" the players.

Cause I just have to restate that everywhere today.

[Alerith]

Yep the other night, last even, I went to knock out BLM body fight, went on PLD cause I like shiny, got raped, switched to WAR it was a joke. I'm almost positive this means something isn't balanced.

It could also simply mean the fight was a bit beyond your ability as a PLD. (I don't mean for that to sound rude or disrespectful. It's been stated that it's harder to play PLD than WAR, and I feel this is an example of that. Because you could do it on WAR but not PLD doesn't necessarily mean the job is imbalanced. You could simply just play WAR better.)

PLD tanking BLM Final Fight

I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the video. FFXIV doesn't run very smoothly when I set fraps to full.

[Enfarious]

It could also simply mean the fight was a bit beyond your ability as a PLD. (I don't mean for that to sound rude or disrespectful. It's been stated that it's harder to play PLD than WAR, and I feel this is an example of that. Because you could do it on WAR but not PLD doesn't necessarily mean the job is imbalanced. You could simply just play WAR better.)

PLD tanking BLM Final Fight

I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the video. FFXIV doesn't run very smoothly when I set fraps to full.

If I can tank Ifrit on PLD there's no reason that I can't tank AF fights, and this is the only one I failed on.
I'll admit that I expected it to be a joke like most of them were, and didn't go in thinking I'd get hit for what I did initially. I also didn't get raised and didn't bother to try a second time as my goal wasn't to say "I did it on PLD" it was just to get it done.
The point wasn't about whether or not I can tank on PLD, I know that I can and do.

It was that on PLD it was challenging, far more than I anticipated, on WAR I just stood there with no worries. Was proof of concept behind obnoxious OPdness of WAR nothing more.

[Seloan]

So SE overpowered WAR and underpowered PLD? How unexpected.

Can't wait for them to release DRK SAM!

[Rexus]

It could also simply mean the fight was a bit beyond your ability as a PLD. (I don't mean for that to sound rude or disrespectful. It's been stated that it's harder to play PLD than WAR, and I feel this is an example of that. Because you could do it on WAR but not PLD doesn't necessarily mean the job is imbalanced. You could simply just play WAR better.)

PLD tanking BLM Final Fight

I apologize in advance for the poor quality of the video. FFXIV doesn't run very smoothly when I set fraps to full.

That video just goes to show how PLD has nothing special over WAR. All you did is use your hate/defensive abilities whenever you could, and did some DPS. I think you used cure once, maybe twice that entire fight.

The only reasons Enfarious probably couldn't tank on PLD were either:

A) Their BLMs pulled hate from doing more damage than yours did, or

B) They/their WHM's were slow on cure and PLDs lower HP pool failed them, or

C) Their BLMs failed and adds got up to the PLD, used some AoE, and wiped them

If those cases were true, WAR was better because they can generate more Enmity (through DPS and Abilities), have Higher HP, and could -technically- help with adds using Cyclone.

[Enfarious]

That video just goes to show how PLD has nothing special over WAR. All you did is use your hate/defensive abilities whenever you could, and did some DPS. I think you used cure once, maybe twice that entire fight.

The only reasons Enfarious probably couldn't tank on PLD were either:

A) Their BLMs pulled hate from doing more damage than yours did, or

B) They/their WHM's were slow on cure and PLDs lower HP pool failed them, or

C) Their BLMs failed and adds got up to the PLD, used some AoE, and wiped them

If those cases were true, WAR was better because they can generate more Enmity (through DPS and Abilities), have Higher HP, and could -technically- help with adds using Cyclone.

I mentioned that the only reason I failed on PLD was because I expected it to be a joke, we did not go in expecting to have to work since I've tanked every other AF Body fight on PLD w/o issue, and figured it can't be harder than Ifrit which isn't hard since you expect it to take a bit of effort.

End result: I got hit way to hard way too early, said "Oh shit" my WHM said "Huh" while he was midcast on something not Cure Succor got interrupted I died, not once did I lose hate though lol.

It was simply me being over confident and rushing into the fight cause I was bored.

I only changed to WAR to see if the same poor tanking method would work on WAR where it failed on PLD, it did, and my WHM napped.
WAR and PLD interchange gear, so it's not a gearing issue.
I didn't lose hate at all, so it wasn't an enmity issue.
It was simply that on WAR the xtra HP and somehow greater dmg mitigation made a tactic that should not work in a real fight work just fine.
Oh and I can heal myself better on WAR though Second Wind, Blood Bath, and WS crits than a PLD can Succor, but that's not really an issue most of the time since typically I only heal my other melees and let WHMs do their thing to me.