Simple Fix to PLD

[NoctisUmbra]

Well, when we look at the thread title, and big bolded letter of your suggestion, nowhere does it mention GLA... until we actually click on your "spoilerbox" , go read it, see the mention of both GLA and PLD at the very end of your post.

You could at least have worded that part better. LOL

As for the VIT thing, there is something that bothers me to notice that so many stats seem to matter to PLD, but at the same time, we can only assign a maximum of 23 points of bonus to one stat, and a lot know, stats are not "meaningless", but they really aren't as useful as they ought to be.

I suppose i could have. I just wanted to keep it simple at a glance and not very overwhelming. I wanted to get the point across that the mitigation would be a very effective asset to PLD in whatever way they could implement it. The box was just my reasoning and suggestions in detail.

As for VIT, yea. I'm holding out for some detailed testing from Kaeko and Seiken regarding the effect of VIT on magical/elemental damage mitigation. I feel like it's very important information to have.

That being said, MRD/WAR is also encouraged to stack VIT, and thus gains this same mitigation. This is why i think they should be able to adjust how VIT effects PLD's mitigation- essentially increasing it's effect. They're able to play with the HP values of classes/jobs so I feel like they may be able to play with how much a stat effects different classes/jobs. Like I can see VIT giving WAR more HP but not much in the way of mitigation, and the opposite for PLD.

[Aceofspades]

I would just like to note that Mog is probably the fore most expert on this game then anyone posting right now, and although I do not agree with all of his opinions, the facts he states are facts and trying to win a debate by proclaiming your opinon > facts is ignorant. Personally, I have very little issues controlling hate with a total of +8 enmity on my entire gear, and with no HP materia what so ever I am only 200hp short that of my war in the same exact gear, and when parsed on multiple boss fights, my PLD takes roughly 10-5k less damage on avg then my war, making that 200 hp dismoly unconsequntial to the debate. I perfer my PLD tank over my WAR because I can infact replace a Healer allowing for a much better DD into the fight then WAR can do to keep up with. Simply put , both classes are fine, IF there was anything I would suggest to the devs to help PLD is to make Holy Succor instant cast, consume as much tp and second wind and put it on a 30-45 second cool down. This frees up mp for cures and stone skin.

[NoctisUmbra]

I would just like to note that Mog is probably the fore most expert on this game then anyone posting right now, and although I do not agree with all of his opinions, the facts he states are facts and trying to win a debate by proclaiming your opinon > facts is ignorant. Personally, I have very little issues controlling hate with a total of +8 enmity on my entire gear, and with no HP materia what so ever I am only 200hp short that of my war in the same exact gear, and when parsed on multiple boss fights, my PLD takes roughly 10-5k less damage on avg then my war, making that 200 hp dismoly unconsequntial to the debate. I perfer my PLD tank over my WAR because I can infact replace a Healer allowing for a much better DD into the fight then WAR can do to keep up with. Simply put , both classes are fine, IF there was anything I would suggest to the devs to help PLD is to make Holy Succor instant cast, consume as much tp and second wind and put it on a 30-45 second cool down. This frees up mp for cures and stone skin.

Hmm.. Where to start. First of I'll say I mean no disrespect to Mog. That being said, I'm not gonna ride his meat either. If a person is wrong, they are wrong. I've been wrong. So has he. He was wrong on multiple accounts in this thread. A lot of it was due to some misunderstandings, but we came to an agreement and all is fine.

Now let's get to all the wrongs of your post right now:

You may be holding enough hate. That statement alone however doesn't say much. You're better off posting some parse results to get my attention. How are your DDs performing? As much as I hate to refer to it, just as fusional said some pages back, when you've got DDs maxing out their job's dps then holding hate as much as possible becomes an issue. No matter how sufficiently you may hold hate on PLD, WAR can accumulate greater amounts of it and in shorter time. So WAR is better at it.

As for the HP difference, I literally just switched between my WAR and my PLD with no gear on and no party buff. On WAR I have 3421 HP naked. On PLD I have 2924 HP naked. That's a difference of 497 HP, not 200. With a party buff, this difference becomes greater.

You say you take 10-15k less damage as a PLD. This tells me you parse since you got that information. Good time to post some parse results. Unfortunately a simple value like that doesn't hold much weight without comparing it to how much total damage is taken in both scenarios as well as how long the fights lasted. Also which bosses? Some are much more physically inclined than others.

Finally, Holy Succor. I can respect your opinion of suggesting they make it instant cast. I do, however, disagree. I would settle perhaps for PLD not getting interrupted while casting it. It is a 10s recast and a massive healing tool. PLD also has a multitude of ways to regain MP. Also, Second Wind does not cost TP.

Now, you can come into my thread and post your opinion on PLD like everyone else. However, coming here and passing off incorrect information as factual and using that to then suggest that Mog is right and his thoughts are more valid than the rest of us, which make quite the large number of people, is ignorant and fanatical behavior.

[Aceofspades]

mog is correct. PLD is not broken, the dungeons and boss fights offer little challange to the tank as far as taking damage thus allowing tanks with weaker defenses to successfully tank, and in turn allowing a high dps tank speed up the time it takes to win the fights. this , and this alone is the only reason WAR is suggested over PLD, hate controll is not an issue with either tank and survivabilty is much higher with PLD. one tank is offensive the other is deffensive. that simple. Claiming WAR is superior in every aspect of tanking is just simply incorrect. to state that def dose nothing for damage deflection is also incorrect. as far as magic damage gose, PLD is still the best equiped tank to avoid magic damage. these , my friend , are all facts.

[Dzian]

, I have very little issues controlling hate with a total of +8 enmity on my entire gear,.

Controlling hate is a team effort. as a tank you generate as much hate as possible you don't really do much to control it. you generate as much emnity as possible. the more emnity you generate the more offensive your dds can be.

the biggest influance in hate control is the rest of your party. your blm nukes likes crazy. his hate box goes red. now he needs to control it so he decides to either use chameleon, cast freeze or simply stop casting for a few seconds to recover some mp while his hate box goes back to yellow/green. This is the biggest influance on hate control. the actual control of emnity has very little to do with the tank.

No matter how sufficiently you may hold hate on PLD, WAR can accumulate greater amounts of it and in shorter time. So WAR is better at it..

thus because a war can generate more emnity in a given time frame the dds in turn can spend more time doing damage and less time controlling emnity.

[Enfarious]

Controlling hate is a team effort. as a tank you generate as much hate as possible you don't really do much to control it. you generate as much emnity as possible. the more emnity you generate the more offensive your dds can be.

the biggest influance in hate control is the rest of your party. your blm nukes likes crazy. his hate box goes red. now he needs to control it so he decides to either use chameleon, cast freeze or simply stop casting for a few seconds to recover some mp while his hate box goes back to yellow/green. This is the biggest influance on hate control. the actual control of emnity has very little to do with the tank.



thus because a war can generate more emnity in a given time frame the dds in turn can spend more time doing damage and less time controlling emnity.

Of course your WHM is the one person that is "forced" to ignore all of this in order to maintain the tank/melees, which is where PLD having dmg mitigation (PDT and MDT) and better healing comes into play, ease the strain on the WHM more than what a WAR can and you've a viable tank again.

DDs are supposed to pull hate, sorry I am of the opinion that the best test of my tanks playing was pulling hate and seeing if s/he could/would get it back quickly, of course I was a DRK and I spent a lot of time on the ground. Now though, now I can shed that hate once I get it, maybe take 1 hit, I'll never stop testing my tanks, but only when hate shedding abilities are up. I'm not a fan of dying, or of overworking healers, but if things are going smoothly and a little excitement is needed why not.
I probably shouldn't post the above but I'm sleep deprived and can regret it later.

[Arcell]

Of course your WHM is the one person that is "forced" to ignore all of this in order to maintain the tank/melees, which is where PLD having dmg mitigation (PDT and MDT) and better healing comes into play, ease the strain on the WHM more than what a WAR can and you've a viable tank again.

DDs are supposed to pull hate, sorry I am of the opinion that the best test of my tanks playing was pulling hate and seeing if s/he could/would get it back quickly, of course I was a DRK and I spent a lot of time on the ground. Now though, now I can shed that hate once I get it, maybe take 1 hit, I'll never stop testing my tanks, but only when hate shedding abilities are up. I'm not a fan of dying, or of overworking healers, but if things are going smoothly and a little excitement is needed why not.
I probably shouldn't post the above but I'm sleep deprived and can regret it later.

Well first off, Parry is actually superior to Block in a few ways. A full parry (foresight) reduces a physical attack to 0 damage. 0. Warrior has greater potential damage mitigation than Paladin, especially since blocks aren't very effective.

Second, DDs are NOT supposed to pull hate. If you're a DD and you're pulling hate, you're doing something wrong. You should try to maximize your damage and ride into the red sure but you should never pull hate. Pulling hate can cause some very unfortunate issues for the party, such as getting everyone killed. If you're dealing with anything with a conal AoE attack, if someone pulls hate and that enemy is now facing the mages and archers for instance, now they are going to get hit with it. With Uraeus and Dodore it's petrify, with Coincounter it's 100 tonze, with Buffalo it's Onrush. A lot of bad situations. Enmity management is a group effort.

[Alerith]

Agreed with Arcell. Your melee shouldn't pull hate. They should be pushing the limit as much as they can with a solid red enmity bar, but they shouldn't be actually in the blinking red.

[Vire]

mog is correct. PLD is not broken, the dungeons and boss fights offer little challange to the tank as far as taking damage thus allowing tanks with weaker defenses to successfully tank, and in turn allowing a high dps tank speed up the time it takes to win the fights. this , and this alone is the only reason WAR is suggested over PLD, hate controll is not an issue with either tank and survivabilty is much higher with PLD. one tank is offensive the other is deffensive. that simple. Claiming WAR is superior in every aspect of tanking is just simply incorrect. to state that def dose nothing for damage deflection is also incorrect. as far as magic damage gose, PLD is still the best equiped tank to avoid magic damage. these , my friend , are all facts.

I don't know if your trolling or just that dumb. Also don't listen to mog he has been wrong as much as he has been right.

[Klive]

One of the issues with paladins is just too many buttons to push to play well, hence the all lodestone sigs on people mashing buttons. I had an idea to fix this, that isn't a flat damage reduction.

Make outmaneuver and divine veil buff more like rampage. Only one can be one at a time and make them have different uses. My idea is make outmaneuver increase block rate keep doing what its does, but the buff doesn't have a duration; possibly increase the block rate more than it is now. Make divine veil decrease damage taken by a %, amount the DEVs should decide, and still have the AoE regen effect.

This way, you have two tanking toggle buffs that are totally different and can't on at the same time. Also, makes playing the paladin feel less frantic.

Now you would...

When you need TP/MP and blocking, toggle outmaneuver up.

When you need flat damage reduction and party healing, toggle divine veil up.