Simple Fix to PLD

[NoctisUmbra]

I don't think paladin has many problems with enmity but damage is high utility that you can't ignore. They didn't lower Spirits Within's damage so that was a deliberate move to increase damage output. They just need to do that with a few more things to make sure paladin doesn't do like a third of a warrior's damage.

Again it's not a problem if PLD + 1 WHM works naturally fine. That's 1 extra DD slot which more than makes up for the difference in damage between a a WAR and a PLD. If people bring a WAR with a WHM, sure they get even better DPS but at greater risk. It's basically a speedrun setup. I'd be fine if PLD was the default tank and everyone looked to WAR for speedrun tanking. It'd actually make sense. Right now, everyone looks to WAR for tanking. Period. Rightfully so.

If PLD had a significant boost to DPS, retained it's damage mitigation utility as well as healing utility, you're looking at a perfect, well rounded job. No weakness. Not gonna happen, and doesn't make sense as far as jobs go.

[Stufoo]

If PLD had a significant boost to DPS, retained it's damage mitigation utility as well as healing utility, you're looking at a perfect, well rounded job. No weakness. Not gonna happen, and doesn't make sense as far as jobs go.

If paladin had a boost to damage you could play it outside of dungeons as well in solo/lowman/etc without being completely worthless and not having to just play another job (warrior), and this goes for gladiator too, it's a sword problem. Trying to fix paladin to put it into these shitty dungeons is not the way to go, you're just putting terribly conceived bandaids on it, and you'll have to do so every time there's a new form of content. This isn't to say it should ever get area damage abilities, or out-damage warriors, but it has to fill the tank slot with some form of comparable output to ever be worth anything. This isn't XI.

How do you consider warrior not a perfectly well rounded job? It has more mitigation tools than paladin and their heals are better outside of bosses without fear of being interrupted, and it kills things in the process instead of having casting time, and it has no MP worries. Warrior has no weakness and can solo entire strongholds. How's that for making sense of jobs?

Oh wait, it's "not going to happen"

[NoctisUmbra]

If paladin had a boost to damage you could play it outside of dungeons as well in solo/lowman/etc without being completely worthless and not having to just play another job (warrior), and this goes for gladiator too, it's a sword problem. Trying to fix paladin to put it into these shitty dungeons is not the way to go, you're just putting terribly conceived bandaids on it, and you'll have to do so every time there's a new form of content. This isn't to say it should ever get area damage abilities, or out-damage warriors, but it has to fill the tank slot with some form of comparable output to ever be worth anything. This isn't XI.

How do you consider warrior not a perfectly well rounded job? It has more mitigation tools than paladin and their heals are better outside of bosses without fear of being interrupted, and it kills things in the process instead of having casting time, and it has no MP worries. Warrior has no weakness and can solo entire strongholds. How's that for making sense of jobs?

Oh wait, it's "not going to happen"

WAR, like many of the DDs, lacks an effective healing utility. It is dependent on an off-class Second Wind and Bloodbath.

Also, jobs were never designed to be effective for solo/lowman. Honestly now.

Even when they first introduced Paladin they mentioned how it would be sacrificing HP from GLA for greater defense and powerful white magic. Alongside that I've analyzed a PLD's skill-set and used SE's own design as support for my proposed fix.

Now if you believe WAR to be over-powered and much too well-rounded as opposed to the other jobs, then you must be suggesting that it be nerfed. You said it, not me.

[Stufoo]

Also, jobs were never designed to be effective for solo/lowman. Honestly now.

I just said it was a gladiator problem too, you idiot. Swords suck and no one is going to play a terrible tank that has to haul 6 DDs around to get anything done anywhere.

WAR, like many of the DDs, lacks an effective healing utility.

Yeah sure.

[NoctisUmbra]

I just said it was a gladiator problem too, you idiot. Swords suck and no one is going to play a terrible tank that has to haul 6 DDs around to get anything done anywhere.



Yeah sure.

Outstanding contribution there.

[ThePatriarch]

I just said it was a gladiator problem too, you idiot.

We have a winnar.

On topic, I agree. Liked!

[Enfarious]

yeah thats what exactly happen in xi pld became useless once monk hp pool became so high and nin just being able to almost evade everything and even dnc could eva tank. pld in xi had just about no dd capability so as the caps got higher it was in less demand.just hope gla/pld in this doesn't become useless.

you left out thf.SE managed to revive pld by offering up NMs that would one-shot eva tanks, it killed me cause all of a sudden my nin thf dnc and to some degree mnk became worthless for some activities. But then again my pld friends served up a purpose again.

I play healer 90% of the time and as such I love when a, well played, paladin is in the group. Tanking or not, a paladin bring a lot of ability that greatly increases a party's survivability.

Just a few things I've seen a great paladin do, when not tanking.
-Time his rampart with the warrior;s rampart making rampart up 100% of the fight.
-Use enmity WS with collusion, granting extra enmity to the warrior.
-Throw cover on the tank when the tank had low hp, get a block, use spirits, and help heal the tank.
-Covering melee so he can start is front combo line,
-With single WHM run the tank died. The paladin took threat, used Hallowed ground, tanked while raising the dead tank. Then took over tanking.
-Take over healing when the WHM died. No really! Everyone gets better mana regen when in passive mode. He healed until the bard could get the WHM back up.

A well played paladin is fantastic and can replace the need for a second WHM. I love running with paladins, sadly few groups let them. Good paladins stop wipes from happening and have the tools to do it.

Isn't NOT doing things like this kind of the point, to have a pld and a war in a pt the smart choice SHOULD be a war geared for dmg and a pld geared for well, plding.
The idea that w/ both in a pt together lead to the pld playing a support role is bass-ackwards counter intuitive and just plain busted. In a setup like that the smart money should be on pld tanking every time w/ the war serving as a "rescue" tank.
This is your single most glaring bit of evidence that pld is busted and needs to be fixed. War can DD w/ the rest of em and should be allowed to, all the DD jobs have a HP revoery of some kind(lnc/drg is busted granted) that doesn't make them a default tank. pgl/mnk can tank well enough if needed too but the simple fact is pld should tank, the rest are DD jobs and should really be allowed to work as such whenever possible. I'm sure that just like in most MMOs more classes will be added ... They've already got those planned don't they? I'm sure other tank capable jobs will emerge, but pld really should be the one that people say, "Hey see if we can't get a pld to tank this, if not we can settle for XXX." not the other way around.

[Jinko]

How do you consider warrior not a perfectly well rounded job? It has more mitigation tools than paladin and their heals are better outside of bosses without fear of being interrupted, and it kills things in the process instead of having casting time, and it has no MP worries. Warrior has no weakness and can solo entire strongholds. How's that for making sense of jobs?

Oh wait, it's "not going to happen"

Thats not well rounded, it's actually quite broken and overpowered, no job should excel at both DPS and Tanking at the same time.

Although the majority like to think this is a problem with Gladiators/Paladins its actually more of a problem with Marauders/warriors and has been for a very long time, jobs just make the situation more noticeable.

I actually think SE should fix MRD/WAR before even considering fixing GLA/PLD.

Change the stances for MRD/WAR's to :-
1) Berserk - Sacrifice a large amount of defence for attack power. (so much so that they can't tank in this stance)
2) Defender - Sacrifice a large amount of attack power for defence. (so much so that they can't DPS effectively in this stance)

Can not change stance during combat.

[Majidah]

Thats not well rounded, it's actually quite broken and overpowered, no job should excel at both DPS and Tanking at the same time.

Although the majority like to think this is a problem with Gladiators/Paladins its actually more of a problem with Marauders/warriors and has been for a very long time, jobs just make the situation more noticeable.

I actually think SE should fix MRD/WAR before even considering fixing GLA/PLD.

Change the stances for MRD/WAR's to :-
1) Berserk - Sacrifice a large amount of defence for attack power. (so much so that they can't tank in this stance)
2) Defender - Sacrifice a large amount of attack power for defence. (so much so that they can't DPS effectively in this stance)

Can not change stance during combat.

Where's the button to down vote a post when you need it?

WAR tanking comes from its DDing; plus WARs do best against several mobs. Its "okay" against a single one.

[Jinko]

Where's the button to down vote a post when you need it?

WAR tanking comes from its DDing; plus WARs do best against several mobs. Its "okay" against a single one.

They are still overpowered whatever way you look at it.

It's not that we should be bringing Paladin up to Warrior standards we should be bringing Warrior down to Paladin.

Of course every Marauder is going to disagree with this, they have been overpowered for wayyy too long.

And to be honest a hit to Warrior DPS won't negate its tanking abilities that much, as it stands they can already hold hate better than most paladins and actually are much easier to play.

It's all about balance.