Simple Fix to PLD

[NoctisUmbra]

How about SE puts it on gear.

In the form of DEF and M.DEF.
EVA and M.EVA

Like, add whatever quantity would give tanks 10-20% damage reduction.

Oh, right, they already have that.

Disregard.

MDEF no longer exists.

They are not nearly as potent as %-based damage reduction against strong foes.

A trait defines the class/job.

[DoctorMog]

MDEF no longer exists.

They are not nearly as potent as %-based damage reduction against strong foes.

A trait defines the class/job.

So does the gear.

At least on gear they could at it in any quantity they see fit. and add/remove other stats to balance accordingly.

[NoctisUmbra]

Go get hit by a level 70 mob in full PLD AF

Then go get hit by the same mob in DRG AF.

Unless you can prove to me that DEF does not in fact reduce that damage. Stop making assumptions.

I'm not saying DEF does nothing. I'm saying it doesn't do enough to merit using PLD over WAR. Ever.

Really, if I have to keep repeating myself with you, I'm just gonna stop trying lol.

[DoctorMog]

I'm not saying DEF does nothing. I'm saying it doesn't do enough to merit using PLD over WAR. Ever.

Really, if I have to keep repeating myself with you, I'm just gonna stop trying lol.

And I never said PLD over WAR was a discussion about its DEF, I said PLD is more versatile than WAR.

If anything, I somewhat agree with you, but I think PLD should have HIGHER DEF than it does now, NOT a trait.

[NoctisUmbra]

And I never said PLD over WAR was a discussion about its DEF, I said PLD is more versatile than WAR.

If anything, I somewhat agree with you, but I think PLD should have HIGHER DEF than it does now, NOT a trait.

Ok, as far as the details of the idea goes I think we can agree to disagree.

As long as we agree in the idea that PLD needs to be taking significantly less damage than WAR, and that it is not the case now, then we are essentially asking for the same thing.

I just base how much less damage it should be taking on the notion that it should be viable to be able to bring 1 less WHM to instances where a PLD is tanking then when a WAR is tanking, which more than makes up for the difference in DPS due to the inclusion of another DD, and allow for PLD to actually use Holy Succor on party members instead of regretting not using it on itself each time it's available.

[DoctorMog]

Ok, as far as the details of the idea goes I think we can agree to disagree.

As long as we agree in the idea that PLD needs to be taking significantly less damage than WAR, and that it is not the case now, then we are essentially asking for the same thing.

I just base how much less damage it should be taking on the notion that it should be viable to be able to bring 1 less WHM to instances where a PLD is tanking then when a WAR is tanking, which more than makes up for the difference in DPS due to the inclusion of another DD, and allow for PLD to actually use Holy Succor on party members instead of regretting not using it on itself each time it's available.

On it's own, using no skills?

I have no issue with it taking the same "general swing damage" as WAR.

Its skills are what make it unique,

I would like to see PLD get more "magic damage mitigation reduction skills"

it already has enough normal damage mitigation over WAR

[jwang]

Some fair points there for enmity jwang. I wasn't aware that healing-based enmity was shared across all mobs, and while that is a valid cause of concern it provides no downside for fights against single boss mobs. Also, I don't know what you mean by Sentinel being broken. I know it does not enhance enmity generated through heals or Rampart, but I do know it enhances enmity generated by Provoke and Flash.

As for your various points as far as damage mitigation, I am well aware that Defense has a diminished effect and isn't useful, hence my suggestion of a %-based damage mitigation trait.

Sentinel is supposed to boost enmity done by ALL actions. ALL actions, as stated by the tooltip. So when I pop Sentinel, I expect every thing I do, whether it's auto-attack, an ability, healing, or weaponskill, to generate an increased amount of enmity. Not this shenanigans with some abilities not getting boosted.

Also, don't you find WAR's unlimited resource to heal himself in addition to having it instant and castable on the move unfair to PLDs? PLDs have to manage MP, time their casts so that they don't get interrupted, and know who is in range and can be healed to generate maximum hate. In comparison, WARs just faceroll and gain enmity, no worries about survival just pop Bloodbath and Mighty Strikes!

Reduce MP cost for Holy Succor as well as make it instant cast, restore more MP from Outmaneuver, make one of PLD's moves convert TP to MP, make one of PLD's abilities solely for magic resistance, make shield blocks actually something that is meaningful outside of trash and XP, and fix Sentinel for crying out loud!

[NoctisUmbra]

On it's own, using no skills?

I have no issue with it taking the same "general swing damage" as WAR.

Its skills are what make it unique,

I would like to see PLD get more "magic damage mitigation reduction skills"

it already has enough normal damage mitigation over WAR

I can agree with that. Being that magic-based attacks tend to be the most devastating kinds in XIV's boss battles, it can be singled out as the primary culprit in why the community has come to prefer WAR as a tank in virtually every scenario.

Something like magic evasion, however, is effected by dLv and furthermore not reliable as a form of damage mitigation. This is why I came to the conclusion that %-based damage mitigation, the only reliable, consistent form of mitigation against magical attacks from very high level, powerful enemies that I have seen, is the way to accomplish this.

Perhaps adding large overall elemental resistances to their armor would be a way to go, but even then I'm not sure if those effect astral/umbral/non-elemental magic damage.

[DoctorMog]

Adding individual resistances for each of the main elements sounds like a good idea.

Actually, come to think of it, maybe magic resistance materia should be buffed to be allowed in more slots and weigh heavier on tanking.

[NoctisUmbra]

Sentinel is supposed to boost enmity done by ALL actions. ALL actions, as stated by the tooltip. So when I pop Sentinel, I expect every thing I do, whether it's auto-attack, an ability, healing, or weaponskill, to generate an increased amount of enmity. Not this shenanigans with some abilities not getting boosted.

Also, don't you find WAR's unlimited resource to heal himself in addition to having it instant and castable on the move unfair to PLDs? PLDs have to manage MP, time their casts so that they don't get interrupted, and know who is in range and can be healed to generate maximum hate. In comparison, WARs just faceroll and gain enmity, no worries about survival just pop Bloodbath and Mighty Strikes!

Reduce MP cost for Holy Succor as well as make it instant cast, restore more MP from Outmaneuver, make one of PLD's moves convert TP to MP, make one of PLD's abilities solely for magic resistance, make shield blocks actually something that is meaningful outside of trash and XP, and fix Sentinel for crying out loud!

This is the kind of overdoing I was referring to in my OP. Second Wind, whilst recovering HP instantly and not using any resource, is available only every 45 seconds and heals for around 500-550 HP on a non-PGL/MNK.

Holy Succor on the other hand, is available every 10 seconds, heals target for ~1k, and when used on another party member it also heals he PLD for ~500.

I think that's quite balanced.

The idea isn't for PLD to play more like WAR. It's for PLD to be at least as effective a tank as WAR in many scenarios, but in it's own way.