Simple Fix to PLD

[Firon]

Noct I agree with everything you wrote bro, but since my war was was not 50 i finally decided to look at what their skill set was war dmg is not the only thing that is setting them apart they have to many hate gaining skills. Antagonize is a perma buff which is stupid Why does the tank class like pld not have a skill like this makes no fkin sense this basically means war gets hate just because they sneezed... Then to top it off they have all the hate gaining skills GLA/PLD does.

When MRD/WAR has 90% of GLA/PLD hate gaining skills + their own + DPS WAR was already set to be the better tank by default.

The most of tanking stuff goes in WAR's favor to much.

1. Hate gaining skills. PLD/WAR both have these.

2. Cure's. PLD has better, but war can kinda heal on its own.

3 DMG. WAR wins this.

4.HP. War wins this also

5. DMG taken. This is even to me, even with divine veil change that was not enough to make a dmg reduction difference.

6. Ability to protect party members, Sorry but collusion beats cover in every way.

Noct i know you don't want war to be nerfed, but I think it needs to be done, only 2 things need to be done to war.

1. Antagonize needs to only last something like 10 secs like Sent. That shit is just to good.

2. some of GLA skills need to be locked out from all classes like sent and rampart or change war's Gla sub to lnc so they can tank off pure dmg, cause of right now they have better hate keeping tools even w/o gla's subs.

[SwordCoheir]

which makes it all the more curious to me when it takes them so long to balance the tank jobs when a glaring hole is found. i mean their initial response was pretty quick, but still didn't even come close to stopping the bleeding.

/shrug

It's probably because they want to come up with something that doesn't turn PLD into a straight DPS or just give PLD a flat out mitigation, which might make it OP for future content when/if they make future adjustments to things like Block, Parry, or adjust the defense system.

I do think SE needs to watch how they manage damage on weapons though, the base damage of a weapon seems to have a much bigger impact on damage than attack power itself. At the moment there is about a 70 point difference between Ifrit's Blade and Ifrit's Axe, and viewing weapons as you level on GLA and MRD it's obvious that gap widens considerably the closer you get to Rank 50. Even if SE manages to hold off this problem with increased enmity bonuses and damage mitigation, we'll just see the same WAR > PLD for everything issues reappear when / if the level cap rises. It will come to haunt lower damage weapon jobs like MNK when those gaps start to widen as well, even their 2-3x attack rounds won't make up for a single hit from a MRD or DRG if they get carried away with it.

If I really had my way I'd make sure the highest damage weapon from one class won't have any more than 50 damage over the similar weapons just to make sure that damage gap doesn't get out of hand. Call me selfish but I think that's one problem that needs to be seriously considered for future content.

[stanleyyoung]

nerfing war a bit would solve the problem with pld now, but SE needs to make pld strictly dmg mitigation & self/group surivivability tank. boosting the effectness of cover would greatly help with enimty gain and a better block rates help with dmg mitigation. SE also needs to make war a strict high hp & dps tank, with what firon said about changing war sub abiltites from gla to lnc this would cause war to become more a high hp/dps tank and not relying on gla abilities to gain enimty+ but using lnc abilities to increase dmg output. with this being done pld would be used were the party needs to survive a long fight and war would be used were you kill the mob before mages run out of mp to heal war tank.

[Daniel_Fury]

They should reimplement the Mdef in Rampart.

Make it a gladiator trait so that even if WAR takes Rampart, they will not get the Mdef from it.

[stanleyyoung]

i enjoy playing gla/pld but my main concern and problem with pld is not really the dmg it takes or hate control, its the fact the it doesn't really have an ability to regen mp. gla can survive a bit better then pld due to the fact that use can use second wind, sanugine rite and featherfoot. in my opinion if SE made the cover ability better allowing it for example to regen mp and boost defense according to the amount of ppl covered, the more ppl covered (more mp regen and defense boost) Or another route could be to make outmanuvauer a trait and adjust the block rate and mp regen from it.

[NoctisUmbra]

i enjoy playing gla/pld but my main concern and problem with pld is not really the dmg it takes or hate control, its the fact the it doesn't really have an ability to regen mp. gla can survive a bit better then pld due to the fact that use can use second wind, sanugine rite and featherfoot. in my opinion if SE made the cover ability better allowing it for example to regen mp and boost defense according to the amount of ppl covered, the more ppl covered (more mp regen and defense boost) Or another route could be to make outmanuvauer a trait and adjust the block rate and mp regen from it.

You can stack Aegis Boon with Outmaneuver so that you're 100% block rate comes with MP regen on each block. Also, Enhanced Cover (when wearing the Gallant Surcoat) grants you MP regen based on the damage you take while you cover someone as well as the damage that is transferred to you from them. Not to mention there's also Ballad of Magi from the party's BRD.

[Dragon]

but you can collusion Spirits Within though and it is awesome.

My wife has a warrior and I have paladin; we play and test what the two can do together. The two working together is unreal. Threat generation is threw the roof, damage reduction is increased, greater adaptability, greater survivability, and less need for a second WHM. Few parties really lets us try and experiment this to the fullest, but so far I like how well they combo.

I know people think I'm crazy for experimenting, but I love problem solving. I also think most content, right now, doesn't require two WHMs.

Thanks for the info, actually...

Tanking is kind of broke altogether. Which is why we have this problem in FFXIV, its just not balanced at all, leading to a War out preforming a PLD in every way. This could be one of those maybe it will get fixed in 2.0 but who knows.

They could fix it by doing what they did in WoW. WoW they have 4 classes that can tank, paladin, death knight, druid, warrior. All the classes that can tank have tanking stances, while they are in their tanking stance, basically means their dps is much lower compared to dps classes, the survivability is much higher then everyone else, the threat they generate through damage is 500% higher. Tanks are pretty balanced so that you can take any of the 4 to do raids with.

I could've said about the same without referencing any MMORPG at all, but you are right that there needs to be multiple tanks.

SE did nerf war in FFXI and there was so much rage over it. Probably not worth them to nerf wars. They nerfed the damage on Ukko, nerfed several abilities like restraint, blood rage, took away passive crit bonuses which they just gave them for lvling to 99.

Yup... anyone can nerf a job, but it takes a brain to buff and balance one and the content around it.

If a job is OP you either bring all the rest up to it's level and the game ends up too easy, or you bring the one job down to the level of the rest and people whine.

OR you change/release content itself to fit it better. We shouldn't have only 1 real tank anymore, and that is the clear problem - content not designed for different tanking styles.


'sides, Warrior isn't OP'd, it is how it's intended to be: good enough for anyone to play, but takes a decent player to actually work it. Which is also how Paladin should be, too. (Just as in FFXI.)

[Majidah]

it took them 24 pages to move this thread; the mods always so alert!

[stanleyyoung]

you are right with enhanced cover only with wearing af body. what im trying to point out is that pld should have a trait or better cover ability naturally to regen mp. is nice when af body does regen mp but it would be better if enhanced cover was a trait and the af body just takes it up yet another notch. this also would allow people to wear gear besides af thats still effective to pld but not like what it is now where u have to have af body equiped to get the regen mp when you do cover.

[SwordCoheir]

it took them 24 pages to move this thread; the mods always so alert!

It's because this thread was started over the weekend, though I'm surprised it took them most of the day before they did move it.