Simple Fix to PLD

[stanleyyoung]

pld does need a little boost in block rate, enimty gain and dmg mitigation . an idea to throw out there is allow pld cover ability now to become a trait. the effect of cover now would be is that any party member standing behind pld tranfers a decent/fair port of enimty to the pld and also the more ppl behind him he regens mp(more ppl more regen of mp). no more cover recast and single target like we got now. this idea would be critial to ppl for survivablity reason because pld now has nice healing ability "hoy succor " which helps heal other ppl and himself, putting less strain on the con/whm allowing for another dps member instead of two con/whm for a mrd/war tank. this idea would make a difference in having a high hp/dps tank mrd/war or low dps/high dmg mitigation "party surviability" tank.

[Arcell]

Paladin needs greater damage mitigation. Anyone who believes otherwise has no idea what they're talking about. It doesn't fix the enmity issue because that's what it's not trying to fix. It's trying to fix the "Paladin has less survivability than Warrior" issue. If Paladin could mitigate more damage, it would be the safe tanking choice and as Noctis has said a hundred times or more now, the party could decide to go with a 1 White Mage build if they wanted to.

Does Paladin need more enmity generation options though? Of course. When Warrior has DPS, Antagonize, Sentinel AND Collusion there's an issue. However as was also stated before, enmity management is a group effort. Any group that does not understand this is doomed to fail. It is up to the non-tanks to keep their hate low and it is up to the tank to keep their hate high. If this does not happen then potential problems arise. Paladin could use a couple of extra enmity generation tools but if the party is playing well then Paladin is usually fine in this area.

[Firon]

Noct I agree with everything you wrote bro, but since my war was was not 50 i finally decided to look at what their skill set was war dmg is not the only thing that is setting them apart they have to many hate gaining skills. Antagonize is a perma buff which is stupid Why does the tank class like pld not have a skill like this makes no fkin sense this basically means war gets hate just because they sneezed... Then to top it off they have all the hate gaining skills GLA/PLD does.

When MRD/WAR has 90% of GLA/PLD hate gaining skills + their own + DPS WAR was already set to be the better tank by default.

The most of tanking stuff goes in WAR's favor to much.

1. Hate gaining skills. PLD/WAR both have these.

2. Cure's. PLD has better, but war can kinda heal on its own.

3 DMG. WAR wins this.

4.HP. War wins this also

5. DMG taken. This is even to me, even with divine veil change that was not enough to make a dmg reduction difference.

6. Ability to protect party members, Sorry but collusion beats cover in every way.

Noct i know you don't want war to be nerfed, but I think it needs to be done, only 2 things need to be done to war.

1. Antagonize needs to only last something like 10 secs like Sent. That shit is just to good.

2. some of GLA skills need to be locked out from all classes like sent and rampart or change war's Gla sub to lnc so they can tank off pure dmg, cause of right now they have better hate keeping tools even w/o gla's subs.

[Klive]

6. Ability to protect party members, Sorry but collusion beats cover in every way.

Collusion and cover shouldn't even be compared. Cover is any extremely useful ability, if you are waiting to lose threat to use it, you are doing it wrong. You should be throwing it on a melee every chance you can. It makes any stray damage or AoE go to you. It makes it that monk or dragoon able to move to the front of the monster to start a front combo, with no threat of them taking damage.

The paladin's strength is reducing the need to heal the party, saving the WHM effort. We don't see this because we avoid using melee in most fights. I already covered cover. Divine Veil makes casting cure heal all the melee, that saves the WHM mana and effort. The paladin's heal is designed to be most useful healing other over himself. Hallowed ground when paired with cover makes another party member invincible. All the paladin's abilities are far more useful when melee dps is near him.... and all we do is stack BLMs and bards.

The paladin will remain broken until we start trying to work with what the paladin has to offer. Granted speed runs and raid timers don't allow for much experimentation. The paladin and warrior may both be tanks, but they are as different as night and day. At least, that is my humble view.

[stanleyyoung]

nerfing war a bit would solve the problem with pld now, but SE needs to make pld strictly dmg mitigation & self/group surivivability tank. boosting the effectness of cover would greatly help with enimty gain and a better block rates help with dmg mitigation. SE also needs to make war a strict high hp & dps tank, with what firon said about changing war sub abiltites from gla to lnc this would cause war to become more a high hp/dps tank and not relying on gla abilities to gain enimty+ but using lnc abilities to increase dmg output. with this being done pld would be used were the party needs to survive a long fight and war would be used were you kill the mob before mages run out of mp to heal war tank.

[Daniel_Fury]

They should reimplement the Mdef in Rampart.

Make it a gladiator trait so that even if WAR takes Rampart, they will not get the Mdef from it.

[stanleyyoung]

i enjoy playing gla/pld but my main concern and problem with pld is not really the dmg it takes or hate control, its the fact the it doesn't really have an ability to regen mp. gla can survive a bit better then pld due to the fact that use can use second wind, sanugine rite and featherfoot. in my opinion if SE made the cover ability better allowing it for example to regen mp and boost defense according to the amount of ppl covered, the more ppl covered (more mp regen and defense boost) Or another route could be to make outmanuvauer a trait and adjust the block rate and mp regen from it.

[NoctisUmbra]

i enjoy playing gla/pld but my main concern and problem with pld is not really the dmg it takes or hate control, its the fact the it doesn't really have an ability to regen mp. gla can survive a bit better then pld due to the fact that use can use second wind, sanugine rite and featherfoot. in my opinion if SE made the cover ability better allowing it for example to regen mp and boost defense according to the amount of ppl covered, the more ppl covered (more mp regen and defense boost) Or another route could be to make outmanuvauer a trait and adjust the block rate and mp regen from it.

You can stack Aegis Boon with Outmaneuver so that you're 100% block rate comes with MP regen on each block. Also, Enhanced Cover (when wearing the Gallant Surcoat) grants you MP regen based on the damage you take while you cover someone as well as the damage that is transferred to you from them. Not to mention there's also Ballad of Magi from the party's BRD.

[Dragon]

but you can collusion Spirits Within though and it is awesome.

My wife has a warrior and I have paladin; we play and test what the two can do together. The two working together is unreal. Threat generation is threw the roof, damage reduction is increased, greater adaptability, greater survivability, and less need for a second WHM. Few parties really lets us try and experiment this to the fullest, but so far I like how well they combo.

I know people think I'm crazy for experimenting, but I love problem solving. I also think most content, right now, doesn't require two WHMs.

Thanks for the info, actually...

Tanking is kind of broke altogether. Which is why we have this problem in FFXIV, its just not balanced at all, leading to a War out preforming a PLD in every way. This could be one of those maybe it will get fixed in 2.0 but who knows.

They could fix it by doing what they did in WoW. WoW they have 4 classes that can tank, paladin, death knight, druid, warrior. All the classes that can tank have tanking stances, while they are in their tanking stance, basically means their dps is much lower compared to dps classes, the survivability is much higher then everyone else, the threat they generate through damage is 500% higher. Tanks are pretty balanced so that you can take any of the 4 to do raids with.

I could've said about the same without referencing any MMORPG at all, but you are right that there needs to be multiple tanks.

SE did nerf war in FFXI and there was so much rage over it. Probably not worth them to nerf wars. They nerfed the damage on Ukko, nerfed several abilities like restraint, blood rage, took away passive crit bonuses which they just gave them for lvling to 99.

Yup... anyone can nerf a job, but it takes a brain to buff and balance one and the content around it.

If a job is OP you either bring all the rest up to it's level and the game ends up too easy, or you bring the one job down to the level of the rest and people whine.

OR you change/release content itself to fit it better. We shouldn't have only 1 real tank anymore, and that is the clear problem - content not designed for different tanking styles.


'sides, Warrior isn't OP'd, it is how it's intended to be: good enough for anyone to play, but takes a decent player to actually work it. Which is also how Paladin should be, too. (Just as in FFXI.)

[Majidah]

it took them 24 pages to move this thread; the mods always so alert!