Simple Fix to PLD

[Brannigan]

You can't collusion heals

also as someone said earlier the paladin playing nurse to the warrior is pretty stupid conceptually

[Klive]

but you can collusion Spirits Within though and it is awesome.

My wife has a warrior and I have paladin; we play and test what the two can do together. The two working together is unreal. Threat generation is threw the roof, damage reduction is increased, greater adaptability, greater survivability, and less need for a second WHM. Few parties really lets us try and experiment this to the fullest, but so far I like how well they combo.

I know people think I'm crazy for experimenting, but I love problem solving. I also think most content, right now, doesn't require two WHMs.

[Zumi]

There are several problems with Paladins that people don't want to take them vs Warriors.

1. Low HP. A Paladin with their AF gear has a little over 3k hp while a warrior has over 4k. As a class where the only thing they can do is really tank they probably should have the highest HP in the game.

2. Area of Effect Damage and low overall damage. Paladins have very little ability to tank groups of mobs in a party situation. They have flash and war drum, but flash doesn't do damage and war drum does like 60 damage to each mob. Damage dealers will pull off mobs that you are not directly targeting. Warrior on the other hand has Steel Cyclone which hits all mobs in an area for 1500+ damage which allows warrior to keep solid hate on like 10+ monsters, and do insane amounts of damage. When you have raids that are time runs basically that means you can't take Paladin because their damage output isn't high enough.

3. Damage Taken I been told by white mages that Paladin or Warrior about the same when it comes to healing its not really harder to heal a Warrior vs a Paladin. Here a paladin could use more damage reduction.

4. Enmity Generation, other people can pull mobs from the Paladin, To make up for their lack of damage they should have some tanking stance which increases enmity generation. Again warrior has less of a problem with this given how much more damage they are doing it.

So in the end people just want warriors because they can do more damage and they do so much more damage and take about the same amount of damage. PLD could definitely use a AoE weapnskill, maybe make Spirits Within AoE. Wardrum defiantly needs a buff, like a 30 sec cooldown does like 500+ damage also take the block requirement off of it. That way AoE taking wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Basically Paladin needs, more AoE skills and damage to enemies, better enmity generation, and more damage mitigation, for people to actually want to take Paladins.

[Rexus]

I think a lot of the "problems" with Paladin actually come from the game mechanics being faulty, not Paladin being a weak tank.

First off, time requirements on chests already encourages people to bring whatever makes the dungeon go faster, so you bring war. Second, we as players choose to ignore how monsters are "suppose" to be killed and just take the path of least resistance.

Ex: Coincounter
I'm sure most groups decided to just have WARs stack HP gear, and eat 100 tonnze. However, you're "supposed" to dodge that move, and are rewarded when doing so by having a stunned boss.

Ex: Chimera
SE most likely wanted us to fight this in the middle, incap it's body parts, and fight with at most 2 BLMs. With everything incapped, I'd bet 1 Whm and Holy Succor would be more than enough healing. We instead stand out of AoE range, use 5 BLMs and take a WAR tank for faster kills and a bigger HP pool as a safety net for when hit with TP moves.

Paladin -might- have more use if we did fights the way SE intended them to be fought, but there is literally no reason to follow their path. Sure, you can do 5 chest runs with a Paladin tank, but why would you add that additional stress to yourself/your group? As I said before, we as players look for the path of least resistance (even more so now, since messing up CC/AV runs means less chance at darklight), and that is something SE clearly did not prepare for when introducing Paladin and these new dungeons.

Paladin can either be buffed somehow, so it can act like a Warrior in these fights, or SE can make us do their content the way it was intended. I'd rather the latter honestly, class stacking and standing on a wall is pretty lame.

[Brannigan]

Who eats 100 tonze? That's dumb.

I mean warrior can still dodge everything so I'm not sure how it's the boss mechanics are broken and not the class. Paladin can tank Chimera the exact same way warrior does - ram/dragon breath are easy to dodge and warriors SHOULD be dodging them. It's just riskier on paladin's lower HP pool because sometimes you mess up and you eat a tunnel worm or something.

[SwordCoheir]

I think Rexus was just saying where the game mechanics work against tanking mechanics, the extra HP pool on WAR is a better safety net than anything PLD really has to offer, especially how marginal the difference between their defensive capabilities are.

[Riaayo]

How about we just make Defense a useful stat and call it a day.

[Vire]

Because even if pld could survive the bigger hits better then a war people would still bring war to tank because its not just about surviving but the speed in which you clear the dungeon at that matters. Not to mention the best status effect you can put on a boss is dead. If a warrior is doing double the damage and the fight ends much sooner then that is less things that need to be healed or dodged ect.


Edit: It doesn't even matter if the pld could never lose hate either since as it is blm and mnks can burn full tilt with out pulling if the war is good. When it comes down it pld is deficient in every metric that makes a tank or party member useful compared to warriors.

[fusional]

i mean, okay, make paladin take less damage than warrior... but to what end? what does it help?

as it is i can already just toss regen on our warrior tank and toss the occasional cure 1 without ever falling behind. what does taking less damage do to help paladin, exactly, when damage taken isn't the problem?

yes, it can make up for the lower HP, but that still doesn't help paladin keep hate against 160 dps.

[NoctisUmbra]

i mean, okay, make paladin take less damage than warrior... but to what end? what does it help?

as it is i can already just toss regen on our warrior tank and toss the occasional cure 1 without ever falling behind. what does taking less damage do to help paladin, exactly, when damage taken isn't the problem?

yes, it can make up for the lower HP, but that still doesn't help paladin keep hate against 160 dps.

Really? I'm pretty sure this was explained in great detail multiple times throughout the thread, including the OP itself.

PLD takes less damage > Needs less WHM attention > Bring extra DD instead of extra WHM.

The extra DD more than makes up for what extra dps WAR has over PLD.

As for enmity, although it may still need a further boost to it after this we can only tell when that time may come. One step at a time. You keep referring to this 160 dps. Is there any fight other than Miser's Mistress with MNK DDs that you want to talk about. I'd have no problem if WAR was still preferred for Mistress and some other fights. Problem is it's preferred for everything.

I hope WAR remains a capable tank, inferior to PLD, but still capable. There are many DD's, but when you reserve key roles to 1 job (PLD / WHM), it's not fun waiting around when the said job isn't available.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as inferior. What i advocate is them both having their unique flavor- pros on cons on both sides. They can have their purposes as tanks, instead of it being WAR > PLD pretty much everywhere.