Simple Fix to PLD

[Stufoo]

Full block will block the entire attack dealing you 0 dmg. Partial block cuts the damage you would have taken in 1/2 roughly. On the higher lvl NM or Boss types I get far more partials vs fulls compared to the r50-60 normal enemies because their stats are way higher I assume or like the OP said diminished results vs the higher stuff.

Please learn how the game works before commenting on the state of a job that is in need of just a little bit more help. There is no such thing as "partial" block or parry, those are just normal blocks and parries. "Partially" is just flavor text for when things don't do zero damage. Just because you have sentinel rampart and stoneskin on yourself and it doesn't break doesn't suddenly make it a "full block". You are gravely overstating PLD's defensive capabilities with shield mitigation through complete ignorance and rough eyeballing, shields sure as hell don't stop half the damage on a boss.

The only full block you can achieve since 1.19 is through Aegis Boon. Every other block in the game has to be a 'partial block'. Takes about 15 minutes of 'testing' (more like eyeballing) to figure this out.

Even deflection only stopped 792 damage! Again Lady, partial is only flavor text.

[jwang]

People just plain dont know how to play PLD now is all. I come across this almost every random AF nm shout group I join. They have no clue how to kite without taking dmg, they cant hold hate "but im spamming every hate ability I got" youd be suprised how many times that line is used by alot of you PLD out there xP & their PLDs are geared to deal dmg like they ever gona compete with actual dd's. How many of you plds stacking STR/MND, VIT/STR or VIT/MND? or even worse stacking HP?

DEX/VIT xP give it a try cause if you not @300+ DEX why bother carrying your shield around?

860+ DEF
+71 Enmity
325 VIT
310 DEX
470 Magic Evasion
after buff/food no meds & none of its darklight gear

Theres my main stats on PLD and I have 0 problem with tanking and dd's arent asked to hold back. As for someone saying PLD takes same dmg as WAR lol this is not true by a long shot when your partially blocking nearly ever attack and full blocking + much higher DEF. For example last night 5 maned Great Buffalo for fun with my PLD and just 1 WHM. You partially block Onrush 1200 dmg Onrush deals 2500 dmg. At a rough glance Id say I partially blocked or full blocked 60-70% of all his attacks? Very rough guess after going through my log after the fight, but my partials happen alot. I know great buffalo is old news but it still hits like a truck & its what I most recently did checking my log after the fight.

Hope it helps some of you out there who are having trouble with your PLD ^^ obviously your shield is key, but also takes skill with timing/spacing out your abilities.

Screenshot of gear and stats please. What are you wearing exactly that lets you hit these stats?

[LadySaeko]

Screenshot of gear and stats please. What are you wearing exactly that lets you hit these stats?

Sorry no pic :/

Protect & La Noscean Toast with my setup gives me "delicious" @+50 DEF & +7 VIT gota do a little more DEF to hit "divine"

Alloted 23 DEX 22 VIT

Main: Cobalt Winglet +1 +22 Enmity
Shield: Kite +1 +34 DEF
Head: Sentinel +21 Magic Evasion (up to 7 busts on this dbl attempt lol so its just @1 for now)
Body: Sentinel +20 VIT (busted 1 so far attempting dbl lol again hesitant so just @1 for now)
Waist: Sentinel +20 Enmity
Hands: Sentinel +35 DEX
Legs: Felt Trouser +1 +16 VIT +16 DEX
Feet: Sentinel +45 Magic Evasion
Ear: Stonewall/Black Pearl +1 (if I can ever dbl meld helm Ill prolly go with Black Pearl for 500+ Magic Evasion)
Neck: Stonewall
Wrist: Coral Armillae +1
Ring: Spinal +1 x2

Hope thats good enough < > I'm still playing around alot with my PLD gear

[Firon]

Sorry no pic :/

Protect & La Noscean Toast with my setup gives me "delicious" @+50 DEF & +7 VIT gota do a little more DEF to hit "divine"

Alloted 23 DEX 22 VIT

Main: Cobalt Winglet +1 +22 Enmity
Shield: Kite +1 +34 DEF
Head: Sentinel +21 Magic Evasion (up to 7 busts on this dbl attempt lol so its just @1 for now)
Body: Sentinel +20 VIT (busted 1 so far attempting dbl lol again hesitant so just @1 for now)
Waist: Sentinel +20 Enmity
Hands: Sentinel +35 DEX
Legs: Felt Trouser +1 +16 VIT +16 DEX
Feet: Sentinel +45 Magic Evasion
Ear: Stonewall/Black Pearl +1 (if I can ever dbl meld helm Ill prolly go with Black Pearl for 500+ Magic Evasion)
Neck: Stonewall
Wrist: Coral Armillae +1
Ring: Spinal +1 x2

Hope thats good enough < > I'm still playing around alot with my PLD gear

Just gonna link this here for you so you can stop trying to say more def and dex is gonna help you. http://kanican.livejournal.com/55915.html

[NoctisUmbra]

Just gonna link this here for you so you can stop trying to say more def and dex is gonna help you. http://kanican.livejournal.com/55915.html

Thanks for linking it Firon. I'm outside now and checking in with my phone when I can.

I'll make another major post to clarify some points of mine and adress others when I get home, but in the mean time I ask everyone to please refrain from derailing the discussion of this thread.

[Dzian]

I have 0 problem with tanking and dd's arent asked to hold back..

as a dd i know i need to hold back when that little hate box goes red. you don't need to ask me.

and because you don't ask me to hold back doesnt mean i dont do it. if that box goes red i lay off the damage dealing to help keep the fight under control. it's what all good dds do.

and its so much easier to have that box go red with a paladin tank. than a warrior.

[NoctisUmbra]

People just plain dont know how to play PLD now is all. I come across this almost every random AF nm shout group I join. They have no clue how to kite without taking dmg, they cant hold hate "but im spamming every hate ability I got" youd be suprised how many times that line is used by alot of you PLD out there xP & their PLDs are geared to deal dmg like they ever gona compete with actual dd's. How many of you plds stacking STR/MND, VIT/STR or VIT/MND? or even worse stacking HP?

DEX/VIT xP give it a try cause if you not @300+ DEX why bother carrying your shield around?

860+ DEF
+71 Enmity
325 VIT
310 DEX
470 Magic Evasion
after buff/food no meds & none of its darklight gear

Theres my main stats on PLD and I have 0 problem with tanking and dd's arent asked to hold back. As for someone saying PLD takes same dmg as WAR lol this is not true by a long shot when your partially blocking nearly ever attack and full blocking + much higher DEF. For example last night 5 maned Great Buffalo for fun with my PLD and just 1 WHM. You partially block Onrush 1200 dmg Onrush deals 2500 dmg. At a rough glance Id say I partially blocked or full blocked 60-70% of all his attacks? Very rough guess after going through my log after the fight, but my partials happen alot. I know great buffalo is old news but it still hits like a truck & its what I most recently did checking my log after the fight.

Hope it helps some of you out there who are having trouble with your PLD ^^ obviously your shield is key, but also takes skill with timing/spacing out your abilities.

Let's address some of these points, shall we? I'm not going to argue that there aren't pople who don't know how to play PLD well- it's not so obvious as faceroll WAR tank after all.

Then, let's get to your suggestion of stacking VIT/DEX. Funny, is the first word that comes to mind. Next is late.

Let's first talk about stacking DEX on PLD, and how much of a waste of stats it turns out to be especially at level 50. There was even a dev post stating how diminished the effect of DEX is on block rate at higher levels as opposed to stacking more Block Rate. Put that aside, PLD has no trouble getting blocks, what with Aegis Boon, Divine Veil and Outmaneuver. I've got nothing on extra DEX for PLD and I block very often.

You know what tends to be the most devastating attacks bosses have, that also happen to be impossible to block with a shield? Magical attacks. Honestly, read the thread more. PLD has no issue mitigating physical damage. Magical damage on the other hand, not so good.

Also VIT, I won't bash so much. Personally I do VIT/MND, though I am considering STR/MND. MND makes the most sense of all the stats, as PLD is meant to be healing very often and also MND is a bonus attribute to damage as well, which helps enmity both directly and as a boost to the combo bonus of Flat Blade. Thing is, VIT also doesn't provide much in the way of damage mitigation at higher levels. Now I was mistaken about Defense being effected by dLv, but I'm pretty sure I read dLv plays a large role in how much mitigation VIT provides. Please correct me if I'm wrong again Kaeko.

Enmity overall isn't the issue with PLD. It's just not so obvious as WAR, who simply does high DPS and enhances the enmity generation of it with Vengeance and Sentinel. Plain and simple. PLD requires more clever use of enmity bonuses. Did you know the enmity bonus of Flat Blade, which was recently adjusted, is now 4.5x damage done. So say you do 200 damage with Flat Blade. The bonus is then 4.5 x 200 = 900. This bonus is added to the enmity generated purely through damage, and thus Flat Blade in that instance grants you 200 + 900 = 1100 enmity. With repeated use of Rampart, War Drum, Flash and repeated heals PLD should have no trouble keeping hate on multiple mobs as well.

[LadySaeko]

Let's address some of these points, shall we? I'm not going to argue that there aren't pople who don't know how to play PLD well- it's not so obvious as faceroll WAR tank after all.

Then, let's get to your suggestion of stacking VIT/DEX. Funny, is the first word that comes to mind. Next is late.

Let's first talk about stacking DEX on PLD, and how much of a waste of stats it turns out to be especially at level 50. There was even a dev post stating how diminished the effect of DEX is on block rate at higher levels as opposed to stacking more Block Rate. Put that aside, PLD has no trouble getting blocks, what with Aegis Boon, Divine Veil and Outmaneuver. I've got nothing on extra DEX for PLD and I block very often.

You know what tends to be the most devastating attacks bosses have, that also happen to be impossible to block with a shield? Magical attacks. Honestly, read the thread more. PLD has no issue mitigating physical damage. Magical damage on the other hand, not so good.

Also VIT, I won't bash so much. Personally I do VIT/MND, though I am considering STR/MND. MND makes the most sense of all the stats, as PLD is meant to be healing very often and also MND is a bonus attribute to damage as well, which helps enmity both directly and as a boost to the combo bonus of Flat Blade. Thing is, VIT also doesn't provide much in the way of damage mitigation at higher levels. Now I was mistaken about Defense being effected by dLv, but I'm pretty sure I read dLv plays a large role in how much mitigation VIT provides. Please correct me if I'm wrong again Kaeko.

Enmity overall isn't the issue with PLD. It's just not so obvious as WAR, who simply does high DPS and enhances the enmity generation of it with Vengeance and Sentinel. Plain and simple. PLD requires more clever use of enmity bonuses. Did you know the enmity bonus of Flat Blade, which was recently adjusted, is now 4.5x damage done. So say you do 200 damage with Flat Blade. The bonus is then 4.5 x 200 = 900. This bonus is added to the enmity generated purely through damage, and thus Flat Blade in that instance grants you 200 + 900 = 1100 enmity. With repeated use of Rampart, War Drum, Flash and repeated heals PLD should have no trouble keeping hate on multiple mobs as well.

Saying block > dex for proc rate is like saying att > str or whatever other specific trait youd like vs its corresponding attribute at higher levels for those that apply right? Everything is diminished when you take a r50 and stick it in front of say Ifrit lol doesnt mean its not increased but I could be mistaken. Wish I could get more block+ besides sentinel gear because Id love to not stack so much DEX. I'm glad you tested this yourself because now Ill just ignore my huge increase in partial and full block rate after constantly testing with 310 DEX vs 190/213 DEX when not using shield abilites or when those abilities are never on cooldown. For most people testing an attribute ends with putting on 2 matching rings for a few fights and crying that they dont make a difference. Sorry I dont cling to the absolute specifics others post or do that parser thing lol im old fashioned xP I go out and test for myself on monsters 50+ and Boss/NMs go back in my log and write down totals and do some averages. I find it fun ^^ next is evasion for me.

Only magic attacks in the game that give me problems are chimeras WAR and PLD both gota run like chickens for those. Nothing else coming to mind atm iunno what else gives you magic problems? Most others hit me good enough to actually leave room for me to cure myself before a healer caps me off which is a great enmity tool. I did read the thread its the same as the rest of them QQ PLD and the whole "vastly inferior" thing lol. I just dont feel the same way ^^; and Im sorry for choosing your thread to say I disagree xP. Only true advantage I find is in the base HP. Id love to have more than 3400 without slapping on dbl hp meld set. I wish they didnt get rid of shell even though you can pop an ironwill pancea if magic damage is your problem lol not sure if it actually gives magic def but it says effect of shell :P I havent used them myself yet but I did find it cute with the whole assuming I dont know my head from my ass when it comes to shield and magic attacks made me laugh.

Your right WAR is easier to play lol I play them both but to be fair I havent dived into WAR equip as much as PLD and I find the skill level, timing and attension I need to give my WAR while tanking to be far less than what PLD demands so is that the answer people want? make PLD simple like WAR to be far superior? I dont mind either tanking lol I find them both to be good if played properly. I personally dislike healing WAR vs PLD for whatever thats worth lol since Ive got to heal maybe 2? good PLD so far post revamp. Only thing Id like to see is cover be made useful lol WARs tanking abilities are all useful so Id like to see cover redone at least.

"repeated use of rampart, war drum & flash" cooldowns? I know I got them. Also the Flat Blade thing leaves me confused so if you deal dmg/generate x amount of enmity on a single target that same enmity spreads to all surrounding enemies when poping said aoe abilities? I might be reading what you said wrong about Flat Blade into the "repeated" ability thing for AOE tanking. AOE tanking is all WAR which is fine cause I like aoe collusion off the BLM and cyclone on my WAR by the time PLD AOE abilties cooldown is up theres already way too much AOE dmg thrown around for them to pull hate back ; ; Ive tried. It just gets old with all the constant PLD gimp everywhere I turn in game and here on forums when it really isnt.

Oh id very much like a link on the whole DEX Block diminished thing posted by a dev if anyone would be so kind ^^ I miss alot and was just trying to help out other PLD with another option to try for themselves. I've tried other builds and they failed so I now personally consider them to be wrong for PLD :P perhaps a bad choice of words. My setup and play for PLD has been working & I get positive /tells from many random players on my PLD lol mostly WHM on how easy it is to heal me. I do alot of random pickups a day when Im on usually so Im always dealing with tons of different ways to do things.

Sorry for the long post :P my boredom level is at an all time high now with very little left I want to play ; ;

[Haibel]

I'm in support of OP

[Elexia]

They did PLD so well in FFXI in non-zerg content that I'm depressed that it wasn't done even better in this game. It had much more potential with less "limitations" due to not having a forced subjob.

All they really need to do is give it more HP (like it should have), more MP, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Palisade, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Chivalry, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Guardian, higher damage reduction (even though enmity isn't a laaaaaarge problem, it just basically gives a bonus to it) the set effect from XI's empyrean armor (occasionally converts damage taken to HP, not as broken as it sounds) and more people learn the utility of it and it's set. (I've seen and played with amazing PLDs on some raids so far, so there IS still a player aspect that's making PLD out to be worse than it is.)

The only reason PLD suffers fundamentally in general is because of the game design, which benefits warrior a lot more than PLD. It would be the same issue if Ninja was released and was designed as a tank, unless it did heavy DD it won't stand a chance against WAR, simply because of game design.