SUGGESTION: Turn Bluemage into a regular job - Limited Job>Advanced Job (An Approach)

[ADVSS]

I dont really understand the whole 3 roles in one. BLU has been a jack of all almost to the same vein as RDM. I think though, that people wanted a class that was versatile in different roles, or could tag in as a replacement this or that. Im going to look at past BLU spells and effects, but it always seemed to be a caster 1st, and potentially a support mage, but besides WW, usually had abysmal healing, and well the tanking is most likely an XI thing, personally. It could wear some medium armor in V, but still

BLU before 11 reinvented it:

Angel Whisper - Angel Whisper revives and restores HP to KO'd allies.
Mighty Guard - Mighty Guard grants Protect and Shell, plus other statuses that vary from game to game, to the entire party.
White Wind - White Wind restores HP to the party based in some way on the caster's HP.
Frog Song - Frog Song usually inflicts Toad and sometimes Sleep. It is generally learned from Toad enemies.
Magic Hammer - Magic Hammer reduces or drains a target's MP.
Night - Night puts all targets, friend and foe, to sleep. It even affects the caster in Final Fantasy IX.

Offensive spells

Aero - Aero inflicts Wind elemental damage. Often appears as White or Black Magic. Other similar spells varying in power are Aerora and Aeroga.
Aqua Breath - Aqua Breath inflicts Water elemental damage to all enemies.
Bad Breath - Bad Breath inflicts various statuses on all enemies, which differs from game to game. It is generally learned from the Malboro enemies.
Flamethrower - Flamethrower inflicts Fire elemental damage to one enemy. It is generally learned from Dragon enemies.
Doom - Doom inflicts the Doom status on one enemy.
Level 5 Death - Level 5 Death inflicts Instant Death on all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 5. In some games, it may work on bosses that are normally immune to normal death magic.
Roulette - Roulette randomly knocks out any target in battle, whether it is an enemy or a party member.
1000 Needles - 1000 Needles inflicts 1000 damage to an enemy, regardless of defense stat or bonuses such as Protect. The ability is usually learned from the Cactuar enemy.
Acid - Acid inflicts non-elemental damage to an enemy, as well as status effects.
Blaster - Blaster generally inflicts non-elemental damage and attempts to inflict Instant Death on the target. It is generally learned from the Coeurl enemies.
Goblin Punch - Goblin Punch inflicts non-elemental damage to one enemy, but inflicts massive damage if the enemy's level is the same as the caster. It is generally learned from Goblin enemies.
Lifebreak - Also known as ???, Lifebreak inflicts damage based on the difference between the caster's Max HP and current HP. Behemoth enemies generally use this spell.
Limit Glove - Limit Glove inflicts massive damage when the caster's HP is in critical.
Matra Magic - Matra Magic deals non-elemental damage to all enemies or attempts to inflict Instant Death. Can generally be learned from Machine enemies.
Self-Destruct - Self-Destruct sacrifices the user to inflict non-elemental damage equal to user's current HP. It is generally learned from Bomb enemies.

Game specific
Final Fantasy V

Flash - blinds all enemies.
Level 2 Old - casts Old on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 2.
Level 3 Flare - casts Flare on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 3.
Level 4 Graviga - casts Graviga on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 4.
Guard-Off - lowers the target's defense.
Lilliputian Lyric - casts Mini on the target.
Death Claw - reduces target's HP to a single digit and paralyzes them.
Time Slip - casts Old and Sleep on the target.
Moon Flute - casts Berserk on the target.
Transfusion - fully restores target's HP and MP. KOs the user afterward.
Dark Spark - halves the target's level.
Vampire - drains HP from the target by an amount equal to either the difference in the user's current and max HP or the target's current HP.

Final Fantasy VI

Tsunami - deals Water damage to all enemies.
Level 3 Confuse - casts Confuse on all enemies whose level is a multiple of 3.
Reflect??? - causes Darkness, Silence, and Slow on all opponents who have the Reflect status.
Traveler - deals damage to one opponent equal to the number of steps the party has taken throughout the game divided by 32.
Force Field - nulls all damage done by a random element to everyone on the field—allies and foes both.
Dischord - halves the level of one enemy. Enemies immune to death will not be affected.
Rippler - switches any status ailments Strago has with those of one opponent.
Quasar - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents.
Grand Delta - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents. More powerful than quasar.

Final Fantasy VII

Beta - deals massive Fire damage to all enemies, ignoring Reflect.
Chocobuckle - deals damage equal to the number of times the party has escaped from battle times 4, only if the caster's level is a multiple of 4.

Final Fantasy VIII

Laser Eye - Lasers from caster's eyes hurt a single enemy.
Ultra Waves - deals non-elemental damage and Berserks all enemies.
Electrocute - deals Lightning damage to all enemies.
LV?Death - casts Death on any enemy whose level is a multiple of a certain number, which depends on Quistis's Crisis Level.
Degenerator - eliminates an enemy from battle.
Gatling Gun - deals physical damage to one enemy.
Acid - deals damage and status change on a single enemy.
Homing Laser - deals damage to all enemies.
Raybomb - deals physical damage to all enemies.
Shockwave Pulsar - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies. Dealing critical damage that may exceed the 9,999 limit.

Final Fantasy IX

Level 4 Holy - deals Holy damage to all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 4.
Level 3 Defless - randomly lowers the defense and magic defense of enemies whose levels are a multiple of 3.
Twister - deals random Wind damage to all enemies.
Earth Shake - deals Earth damage to all enemies on the ground.
Angel's Snack - consumes four Remedies to use on the entire party at once.
Frog Drop - deals damage based on the number of Frogs that Quina has eaten.
Vanish - causes a target to disappear and become immune to physical damage.
Frost - attempts to inflict the Freeze status on one target.
Mustard Bomb - attempts to inflict the Heat status on one target.
Auto-Life - causes one target to automatically be revived once after being KO'd.

Final Fantasy X

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Thrust Kick - causes physical damage to one target and attempts to Eject the target from battle.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.

Final Fantasy X-2

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.
Absorb - absorbs a small amount of HP and MP from a target.
Cry in the Night - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Drill Shot - deals physical damage to one target.
Mortar - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Annihilator - deals non-elemental damage the entire target party.
Heaven's Cataract - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party and reduces its defense and magic-defense.
Storm Cannon - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party based on the caster's level.

and then BLU as 11's reinvention

Acrid Stream - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Lowers target's Magic Defense.
Actinic Burst - greatly lowers the accuracy of enemies within range for a brief period of time.
Amplification - enhances the casters magic attack and magic defense.
Animating Wail - increases the casters attack speed.
Asuran Claws - delivers a sixfold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Auroral Drape - silences and blinds enemies within range.
Awful Eye - lowers Strength of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Battery Charge - gradually restores the casters MP.
Battle Dance - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: DEX Down. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Benthic Typhoon - delivers an area attack that lowers target's defense and magic defense. Damage varies with TP.
Blank Gaze - removes one beneficial magic effect from an enemy.
Blastbomb - deals fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: "Bind".
Blazing Bound - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Blitzstrahl - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: "Stun".
Blood Drain - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Blood Saber - steals HP from enemies within range. Ineffective against undead.
Bludgeon - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Body Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Bomb Toss - throws a bomb at an enemy.
Cannonball - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Chaotic Eye - silences an enemy.
Charged Whisker - deals Lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
Cimicine Discharge - reduces the attack speed of enemies within range.
Claw Cyclone - damages enemies within area of effect with a twofold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Cocoon - enhances the casters defense.
Cold Wave - deals ice damage that lowers Agility and gradually reduces HP of enemies within range.
Corrosive Ooze - deals water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Attack Down and Defense Down.
Cursed Sphere - deals water damage to enemies within area of effect.
Death Ray - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Death Scissors - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Delta Thrust - delivers a threefold attack on a single target. Additional effect: Plague.
Demoralizing Roar - weakens the attack of enemies within range.
Diamondhide - gives party members within area of effect the effect of "Stoneskin".
Digest - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Dimensional Death - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Disseverment - delivers a fivefold attack. Additional effect: Poison. Accuracy varies with TP.
Dream Flower - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Empty Thrash - delivers an area of attack attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Enervation - lowers the defense and magical defense of enemies within range.
Everyone's Grudge - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Exuviation - restores the casters HP and removes one detrimental magic effect.
Eyes On Me - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Fantod - enhances the casters attack and magic attack.
Feather Barrier - enhances the casters evasion.
Feather Storm - damages the enemy and may inflict poison. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Feather Tickle - reduces an enemy's TP.
Filamented Hold - reduces the attack speed of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Final Sting - deals damage proportional to the casters HP. Reduces the casters HP to 1 after use. Damage varies with TP.
Firespit - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Flying Hip Press - deals wind damage to enemies within range.
Foot Kick - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Frenetic Rip - delivers a threefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Frightful Roar - weakens defense of enemies within range.
Frost Breath - deals ice damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Frypan - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun". Accuracy varies with TP.
Geist Wall - removes one beneficial magic effect from enemies within range.
Goblin Rush - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Grand Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Head Butt - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP. Additional effect: "Stun".
Healing Breeze - restores HP for party members within area of effect.
Heat Breath - deals fire damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Hecatomb Wave - deals wind damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Blindness.
Leafstorm - deals wind damage within area of effect.
Helldive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Hydro Shot - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Enmity Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Hysteric Barrage - delivers a fivefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Ice Break - deals ice damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: "Bind".
Infrasonics - lowers the evasion of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Jet Stream - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Jettatura - enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster are frozen with fear.
Light of Penance - reduces an enemy's TP. Additional effect: Blindness and "Bind".
Lowing - gives enemies within range a powerful disease that prevents recovery of HP and MP.
MP Drainkiss - steals an enemy's MP. Ineffective against undead.
Maelstrom - deals water damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: STR Down.
Magic Barrier - grants the caster a Magic Shield effect.
Magic Fruit - restores HP for the target party member.
Magnetite Cloud - deals earth damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Weight.
Mandibular Bite - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Memento Mori - enhances the casters magic attack.
Metallic Body - absorbs an certain amount of damage from physical and magical attacks.
Mind Blast - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Mysterious Light - deals wind damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: Weight.
Osmosis - steals an enemy's HP and one beneficial status effect. Ineffective against undead.
Occultation - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.
Pinecone Bomb - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: sleep. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Plasma Charge - covers the caster with magical lightning spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take lightning damage.
Plenilune Embrace - restores target party member's HP and enhances attack and magic attack. Attack boost and magic attack boost depends on the current moon phase.
Poison Breath - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Poison.
Pollen - restores the casters HP.
Power Attack - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Quadratic Continuum - delivers a fourfold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Queasyshroom - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Poison. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Radiant Breath - deals light damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area of effect originating from the caster. Additional effect: Slow and Silence.
Ram Charge - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Reactor Cool - enhances defense and covers the caster with magical ice spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take ice damage.
Reaving Wind - reduces TP for enemies within range.
Refueling - increases the casters attack speed.
Regeneration - gradually restores the casters HP.
Regurgitation - deals Water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Bind.
Saline Coat - enhances the casters magic defense.
Sandspin - deals earth damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down.
Sandspray - blinds enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Screwdriver - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Seedspray - delivers a threefold attack. Additional effect: Weakens defense. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sheep Song - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sickle Slash - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Smite of Rage - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Soporific - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sound Blast - lowers Intelligence of enemies within range.
Spinal Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Accuracy varies with TP.
Spiral Spin - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sprout Smack - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Slow. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Stinking Gas - lowers Vitality of enemies within range.
Sub-zero Smash - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Paralysis. Damage varies with TP.
Tail Slap - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun." Damage varies with TP.
Temporal Shift - enemies within range are temporarily prevented from acting.
Terror Touch - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Weakens attacks. Accuracy varies with TP.
Thermal Pulse - deals Fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: Blindness.
Triumphant Roar - enhances the casters Attack.
Uppercut - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Vanity Dive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Venom Shell - poisons enemies within range and gradually reduces their HP.
Vertical Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Voracious Trunk - steals one beneficial effect from an enemy.
Warm-Up - enhances the casters accuracy and evasion.
Whirl of Rage - delivers an area attack that stuns enemies. Damage varies with TP.
Wild Carrot - restores HP for the target party member.
Wild Oats - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Vitality Down. Duration of effect varies on TP.
Winds of Promyvion - removes one detrimental magic effect for party members within area of effect.
Yawn - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Zephyr Mantle - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.

[Shougun]

First paragraph you have have literally just proven they are versatile and capable in filling all three roles.

Never said they were incapable of doing it in this game or in FFXI. Obviously I literally said they did in FFXI.

I said that the sRPG blue's are not every role (and warned that FFXI is dangerous not only because it has a sub job system that we don't have or the weapon sharing that we don't either, but also because they had loaaaddsss of fun with their balance). Blue has situational healing that if you rely on too much could easily lead to a terrible healer, in all the FF games but FFXI of course, especially as the boss might wallop your blue specifically or do party wide damage, they've got support buffs that help take damage, and they deal damage". Yet that's not that special since most other jobs have variations of that, many not as extreme as Blue Mage but some are (like Red Mage or Summoner who both offer help in both departments regularly).

The point was that blue mage has situational healing and some decent support / damage. They're not a main tank, they're not a main healer, main meaning primary function, they've got rounded edges (like summoner or red mage) and they're a pretty decent damage dealer, they're situational, and kind of weird red mage. Red mage is not all three roles either. Just because Paladin has heals doesn't make it a main healer either.

I've never said it can't be, I just said it doesn't have to be in order to carry the heart of a blue mage. Blue mage is not a main tank or main healer, like dragoon from tactics advanced isn't a main tank just because they can absorb damage and raise themselves. Or like while the restoration druid may have better than normal tanking or damage for a healer they're not a tank or DD anymore (they're main healer).

My only point was that while blue could be multi-role it doesn't need to be, to be 'blue'. Since blue isn't stereotypically fully multi-role ("but FFXI" again you've got the sub job system to contend with and the 'special' kind of balance they employed in that game lol).

I dont really understand the whole 3 roles in one. BLU has been a jack of all almost to the same vein as RDM. I think though, that people wanted a class that was versatile in different roles, or could tag in as a replacement this or that. Im going to look at past BLU spells and effects, but it always seemed to be a caster 1st, and potentially a support mage, but besides WW, usually had abysmal healing, and well the tanking is most likely an XI thing, personally. It could wear some medium armor in V, but still

BLU before 11 reinvented it:

Angel Whisper - Angel Whisper revives and restores HP to KO'd allies.
Mighty Guard - Mighty Guard grants Protect and Shell, plus other statuses that vary from game to game, to the entire party.
White Wind - White Wind restores HP to the party based in some way on the caster's HP.
Frog Song - Frog Song usually inflicts Toad and sometimes Sleep. It is generally learned from Toad enemies.
Magic Hammer - Magic Hammer reduces or drains a target's MP.
Night - Night puts all targets, friend and foe, to sleep. It even affects the caster in Final Fantasy IX.

Offensive spells

Aero - Aero inflicts Wind elemental damage. Often appears as White or Black Magic. Other similar spells varying in power are Aerora and Aeroga.
Aqua Breath - Aqua Breath inflicts Water elemental damage to all enemies.
Bad Breath - Bad Breath inflicts various statuses on all enemies, which differs from game to game. It is generally learned from the Malboro enemies.
Flamethrower - Flamethrower inflicts Fire elemental damage to one enemy. It is generally learned from Dragon enemies.
Doom - Doom inflicts the Doom status on one enemy.
Level 5 Death - Level 5 Death inflicts Instant Death on all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 5. In some games, it may work on bosses that are normally immune to normal death magic.
Roulette - Roulette randomly knocks out any target in battle, whether it is an enemy or a party member.
1000 Needles - 1000 Needles inflicts 1000 damage to an enemy, regardless of defense stat or bonuses such as Protect. The ability is usually learned from the Cactuar enemy.
Acid - Acid inflicts non-elemental damage to an enemy, as well as status effects.
Blaster - Blaster generally inflicts non-elemental damage and attempts to inflict Instant Death on the target. It is generally learned from the Coeurl enemies.
Goblin Punch - Goblin Punch inflicts non-elemental damage to one enemy, but inflicts massive damage if the enemy's level is the same as the caster. It is generally learned from Goblin enemies.
Lifebreak - Also known as ???, Lifebreak inflicts damage based on the difference between the caster's Max HP and current HP. Behemoth enemies generally use this spell.
Limit Glove - Limit Glove inflicts massive damage when the caster's HP is in critical.
Matra Magic - Matra Magic deals non-elemental damage to all enemies or attempts to inflict Instant Death. Can generally be learned from Machine enemies.
Self-Destruct - Self-Destruct sacrifices the user to inflict non-elemental damage equal to user's current HP. It is generally learned from Bomb enemies.

Game specific
Final Fantasy V

Flash - blinds all enemies.
Level 2 Old - casts Old on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 2.
Level 3 Flare - casts Flare on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 3.
Level 4 Graviga - casts Graviga on all targets with a level that is a multiple of 4.
Guard-Off - lowers the target's defense.
Lilliputian Lyric - casts Mini on the target.
Death Claw - reduces target's HP to a single digit and paralyzes them.
Time Slip - casts Old and Sleep on the target.
Moon Flute - casts Berserk on the target.
Transfusion - fully restores target's HP and MP. KOs the user afterward.
Dark Spark - halves the target's level.
Vampire - drains HP from the target by an amount equal to either the difference in the user's current and max HP or the target's current HP.

Final Fantasy VI

Tsunami - deals Water damage to all enemies.
Level 3 Confuse - casts Confuse on all enemies whose level is a multiple of 3.
Reflect??? - causes Darkness, Silence, and Slow on all opponents who have the Reflect status.
Traveler - deals damage to one opponent equal to the number of steps the party has taken throughout the game divided by 32.
Force Field - nulls all damage done by a random element to everyone on the field—allies and foes both.
Dischord - halves the level of one enemy. Enemies immune to death will not be affected.
Rippler - switches any status ailments Strago has with those of one opponent.
Quasar - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents.
Grand Delta - deals non-elemental magic damage to all opponents. More powerful than quasar.

Final Fantasy VII

Beta - deals massive Fire damage to all enemies, ignoring Reflect.
Chocobuckle - deals damage equal to the number of times the party has escaped from battle times 4, only if the caster's level is a multiple of 4.

Final Fantasy VIII

Laser Eye - Lasers from caster's eyes hurt a single enemy.
Ultra Waves - deals non-elemental damage and Berserks all enemies.
Electrocute - deals Lightning damage to all enemies.
LV?Death - casts Death on any enemy whose level is a multiple of a certain number, which depends on Quistis's Crisis Level.
Degenerator - eliminates an enemy from battle.
Gatling Gun - deals physical damage to one enemy.
Acid - deals damage and status change on a single enemy.
Homing Laser - deals damage to all enemies.
Raybomb - deals physical damage to all enemies.
Shockwave Pulsar - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies. Dealing critical damage that may exceed the 9,999 limit.

Final Fantasy IX

Level 4 Holy - deals Holy damage to all enemies whose levels are a multiple of 4.
Level 3 Defless - randomly lowers the defense and magic defense of enemies whose levels are a multiple of 3.
Twister - deals random Wind damage to all enemies.
Earth Shake - deals Earth damage to all enemies on the ground.
Angel's Snack - consumes four Remedies to use on the entire party at once.
Frog Drop - deals damage based on the number of Frogs that Quina has eaten.
Vanish - causes a target to disappear and become immune to physical damage.
Frost - attempts to inflict the Freeze status on one target.
Mustard Bomb - attempts to inflict the Heat status on one target.
Auto-Life - causes one target to automatically be revived once after being KO'd.

Final Fantasy X

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Thrust Kick - causes physical damage to one target and attempts to Eject the target from battle.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.

Final Fantasy X-2

Seed Cannon - deals damage to one target.
Stone Breath - inflicts the Stone status on all vulnerable enemies.
Nova - deals massive non-elemental damage to all enemies.
Absorb - absorbs a small amount of HP and MP from a target.
Cry in the Night - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Drill Shot - deals physical damage to one target.
Mortar - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party.
Annihilator - deals non-elemental damage the entire target party.
Heaven's Cataract - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party and reduces its defense and magic-defense.
Storm Cannon - deals non-elemental damage to the entire target party based on the caster's level.

and then BLU as 11's reinvention

Acrid Stream - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Lowers target's Magic Defense.
Actinic Burst - greatly lowers the accuracy of enemies within range for a brief period of time.
Amplification - enhances the casters magic attack and magic defense.
Animating Wail - increases the casters attack speed.
Asuran Claws - delivers a sixfold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Auroral Drape - silences and blinds enemies within range.
Awful Eye - lowers Strength of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Battery Charge - gradually restores the casters MP.
Battle Dance - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: DEX Down. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Benthic Typhoon - delivers an area attack that lowers target's defense and magic defense. Damage varies with TP.
Blank Gaze - removes one beneficial magic effect from an enemy.
Blastbomb - deals fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: "Bind".
Blazing Bound - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Blitzstrahl - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: "Stun".
Blood Drain - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Blood Saber - steals HP from enemies within range. Ineffective against undead.
Bludgeon - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Body Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Bomb Toss - throws a bomb at an enemy.
Cannonball - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Chaotic Eye - silences an enemy.
Charged Whisker - deals Lightning damage to enemies within area of effect.
Cimicine Discharge - reduces the attack speed of enemies within range.
Claw Cyclone - damages enemies within area of effect with a twofold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Cocoon - enhances the casters defense.
Cold Wave - deals ice damage that lowers Agility and gradually reduces HP of enemies within range.
Corrosive Ooze - deals water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Attack Down and Defense Down.
Cursed Sphere - deals water damage to enemies within area of effect.
Death Ray - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Death Scissors - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Delta Thrust - delivers a threefold attack on a single target. Additional effect: Plague.
Demoralizing Roar - weakens the attack of enemies within range.
Diamondhide - gives party members within area of effect the effect of "Stoneskin".
Digest - steals an enemy's HP. Ineffective against undead.
Dimensional Death - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Disseverment - delivers a fivefold attack. Additional effect: Poison. Accuracy varies with TP.
Dream Flower - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Empty Thrash - delivers an area of attack attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Enervation - lowers the defense and magical defense of enemies within range.
Everyone's Grudge - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Exuviation - restores the casters HP and removes one detrimental magic effect.
Eyes On Me - deals dark damage to an enemy.
Fantod - enhances the casters attack and magic attack.
Feather Barrier - enhances the casters evasion.
Feather Storm - damages the enemy and may inflict poison. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Feather Tickle - reduces an enemy's TP.
Filamented Hold - reduces the attack speed of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Final Sting - deals damage proportional to the casters HP. Reduces the casters HP to 1 after use. Damage varies with TP.
Firespit - deals fire damage to an enemy.
Flying Hip Press - deals wind damage to enemies within range.
Foot Kick - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Frenetic Rip - delivers a threefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Frightful Roar - weakens defense of enemies within range.
Frost Breath - deals ice damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Frypan - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun". Accuracy varies with TP.
Geist Wall - removes one beneficial magic effect from enemies within range.
Goblin Rush - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Grand Slam - delivers an area attack. Damage varies with TP.
Head Butt - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP. Additional effect: "Stun".
Healing Breeze - restores HP for party members within area of effect.
Heat Breath - deals fire damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Hecatomb Wave - deals wind damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Blindness.
Leafstorm - deals wind damage within area of effect.
Helldive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Hydro Shot - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Enmity Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Hysteric Barrage - delivers a fivefold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Ice Break - deals ice damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: "Bind".
Infrasonics - lowers the evasion of enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Jet Stream - delivers a threefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
Jettatura - enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster are frozen with fear.
Light of Penance - reduces an enemy's TP. Additional effect: Blindness and "Bind".
Lowing - gives enemies within range a powerful disease that prevents recovery of HP and MP.
MP Drainkiss - steals an enemy's MP. Ineffective against undead.
Maelstrom - deals water damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: STR Down.
Magic Barrier - grants the caster a Magic Shield effect.
Magic Fruit - restores HP for the target party member.
Magnetite Cloud - deals earth damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Weight.
Mandibular Bite - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Memento Mori - enhances the casters magic attack.
Metallic Body - absorbs an certain amount of damage from physical and magical attacks.
Mind Blast - deals lightning damage to an enemy. Additional effect: Paralysis.
Mysterious Light - deals wind damage to enemies within range. Additional effect: Weight.
Osmosis - steals an enemy's HP and one beneficial status effect. Ineffective against undead.
Occultation - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.
Pinecone Bomb - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: sleep. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Plasma Charge - covers the caster with magical lightning spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take lightning damage.
Plenilune Embrace - restores target party member's HP and enhances attack and magic attack. Attack boost and magic attack boost depends on the current moon phase.
Poison Breath - deals water damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster. Additional effect: Poison.
Pollen - restores the casters HP.
Power Attack - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Quadratic Continuum - delivers a fourfold attack. Damage varies with TP.
Queasyshroom - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Poison. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Radiant Breath - deals light damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area of effect originating from the caster. Additional effect: Slow and Silence.
Ram Charge - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Reactor Cool - enhances defense and covers the caster with magical ice spikes. Enemies that hit the caster take ice damage.
Reaving Wind - reduces TP for enemies within range.
Refueling - increases the casters attack speed.
Regeneration - gradually restores the casters HP.
Regurgitation - deals Water damage to an enemy. Additional Effect: Bind.
Saline Coat - enhances the casters magic defense.
Sandspin - deals earth damage to enemies within range. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down.
Sandspray - blinds enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from the caster.
Screwdriver - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Seedspray - delivers a threefold attack. Additional effect: Weakens defense. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sheep Song - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sickle Slash - deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
Smite of Rage - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Soporific - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Sound Blast - lowers Intelligence of enemies within range.
Spinal Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Accuracy varies with TP.
Spiral Spin - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Accuracy Down. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Sprout Smack - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Slow. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Stinking Gas - lowers Vitality of enemies within range.
Sub-zero Smash - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional Effect: Paralysis. Damage varies with TP.
Tail Slap - delivers an area attack. Additional effect: "Stun." Damage varies with TP.
Temporal Shift - enemies within range are temporarily prevented from acting.
Terror Touch - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Weakens attacks. Accuracy varies with TP.
Thermal Pulse - deals Fire damage to enemies within area of effect. Additional effect: Blindness.
Triumphant Roar - enhances the casters Attack.
Uppercut - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Vanity Dive - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Venom Shell - poisons enemies within range and gradually reduces their HP.
Vertical Cleave - deals a single hit attack to the target. Damage varies with TP.
Voracious Trunk - steals one beneficial effect from an enemy.
Warm-Up - enhances the casters accuracy and evasion.
Whirl of Rage - delivers an area attack that stuns enemies. Damage varies with TP.
Wild Carrot - restores HP for the target party member.
Wild Oats - deals a single hit attack to the target. Additional effect: Vitality Down. Duration of effect varies on TP.
Winds of Promyvion - removes one detrimental magic effect for party members within area of effect.
Yawn - puts all enemies within range to sleep.
Zephyr Mantle - creates shadow images that each absorb a single attack directed at the caster.

First- nice job, I like having that big list next to each other with the purpose of the skill even.
Second- reading the list, it reads exactly like a job made for offensive support to me.. "just" like Summoner is (in games that don't have jobs, like FFVII or FFX, then read it as the menu sub command).

I could see Summoner become multi-role, especially if you wanted to give summoner a boat load of summons, but it feels absolutely fine under the mostly damage with some support section (and the effects that blue mage offers, many summons have done too, like KO, healing, raising, debuffs, etc).

[MaraD_]

Second- reading the list, it reads exactly like a job made for offensive support to me.. "just" like Summoner is (in games that don't have jobs, like FFVII or FFX, then read it as the menu sub command).

You got to keep in mind, you're not actually meant to have EVERY spell, in the typical offline games. This is why so many of the games gave BLU melee potential, and allow such a jack of all trades stat build.
They didnt know which spells u would have, and or not have. so BLU needed to adapt to which ever spells the player happened to have, and still be usable. (Strago went full mage, because you had access to spells right from the start)

Also, most jobs had primarily offensive options, so its still not fair to say something is "DPS with X flavor added". Not to say I disagree with your final assessment of what a BLU was to the developers. But those FFs functioned so much more differently, trying to make comparisons in that way is also kind of faulty. Currently, the three versions of BLU we have in multiplayer games have all been extremely good interpretations of classic BLU. (Even if I absolutely hate 14s BLU, and even more so its "Limited" title.)

Theres also the fact that if SE were to ever make a full "Cloth caster tank", they would either have to make a job never before made, or pick from the jobs which come "the closest" to this idea. Similar if they were to ever make a "Melee Healer", there's only so many classic FF jobs to fit the bill, w/o starting to just feel like a reskinned WHM.
I find the current "DPS main, sub tank/healer" style to BLU fine, as well as the "Multi-role" desire that some people have for it.

lastly... about SMN as a DPS, ironically enough... SMN has been my main healer is so many of the FFs, if not most of them lol. Even in FF4, Rydia was more useful spamming asura for me, than having Rosa spam heals.
Kain was the only one who could survive the last boss, so he was a mix between a DPS DRG and reviving the SMN. The SMN revived everyone else with asura 33% of the time.
If that fails, DRG jumps, to survive the next raid wide attack, while the SMN keeps trying to party rez. Rosa spammed Holy. And Cecil spammed his holy sword.
I pretty much used them in reverse of their normal roles. The PLD and WHM were my heavy hitter DPS, and the DRG and SMN were my tank/healers. lol...
(This is also probably because i always run from random encounters, and i was severely under leveled, so it was the ONLY method that worked lol)

[Shougun]

You got to keep in mind, you're not actually meant to have EVERY spell, in the typical offline games. This is why so many of the games gave BLU melee potential, and allow such a jack of all trades stat build.
They didnt know which spells u would have, and or not have. so BLU needed to adapt to which ever spells the player happened to have, and still be usable. (Strago went full mage, because you had access to spells right from the start)

Also, most jobs had primarily offensive options, so its still not fair to say something is "DPS with X flavor added". Not to say I disagree with your final assessment of what a BLU was to the developers. But those FFs functioned so much more differently, trying to make comparisons in that way is also kind of faulty. Currently, the three versions of BLU we have in multiplayer games have all been extremely good interpretations of classic BLU. (Even if I absolutely hate 14s BLU, and even more so its "Limited" title.)

Theres also the fact that if SE were to ever make a full "Cloth caster tank", they would either have to make a job never before made, or pick from the jobs which come "the closest" to this idea. Similar if they were to ever make a "Melee Healer", there's only so many classic FF jobs to fit the bill, w/o starting to just feel like a reskinned WHM.
I find the current "DPS main, sub tank/healer" style to BLU fine, as well as the "Multi-role" desire that some people have for it.

lastly... about SMN as a DPS, ironically enough... SMN has been my main healer is so many of the FFs, if not most of them lol. Even in FF4, Rydia was more useful spamming asura for me, than having Rosa spam heals.
Kain was the only one who could survive the last boss, so he was a mix between a DPS DRG and reviving the SMN. The SMN revived everyone else with asura 33% of the time.
If that fails, DRG jumps, to survive the next raid wide attack, while the SMN keeps trying to party rez. Rosa spammed Holy. And Cecil spammed his holy sword.
I pretty much used them in reverse of their normal roles. The PLD and WHM were my heavy hitter DPS, and the DRG and SMN were my tank/healers. lol...
(This is also probably because i always run from random encounters, and i was severely under leveled, so it was the ONLY method that worked lol)

I could see how it might feel different based on your play style :P.

My playstyle is stupidly over leveled XD. Like by the time I reached the calm lands in FFX my summons were pretty much a joke in comparison to just slapping stuff with my characters. By the end of the game lulu could have her doll smack something hard enough to overkill it in one hit..

Naturally it provides a different view point lol. To me a job that can kind of heal is not the same as a job that is going to be the bomb at it (white mage), or a job that can kind of tank vs one that'll actually eat the damage when you want it to. Like Dragoon was super buff if (sometimes a big if... haha) your dragonheart was activated (by physical attacks iirc), but if you wanted dragoon to tank you couldn't use jump and fly off screen lol. "BYE GUYS TANK ON YOUR OWN!" hahaha. So the kit wasn't designed to be the guy who takes it all.

Of course Blue, or Summoner as you point out, can be helpful, but they're not the main at it and they're intentionally designed not to be the main (if they were then you'd have a lot more than just a few situational solutions). Like SMN has some heal spells but their cost is often prohibitive compared to a white mage, or they're situational. If you've got some sort of clever situation you can do something a bit awkward of course, like if your characters are strong enough you can start dropping most healing and tanking tasks and just go for "hit as hard as possible as fast as possible" (and that can work as you get a bit too strong). Multi-role certainly is a possible translation, but so is someone who is an offensive support (like Red Mage, and Summoner in general and in specific to our game itself- we've already a role that blue would slide into, you can go the extra mile for the sheer fun / sake of it if you wanted but it's not required since we've already the pre-existing concept blue mage matches up to).

Which also is probably why when people say Blue Mage is so broke, I'm thinking.. all the jobs are broke in the single player series. Blue mage's pacing for brokeness is a bit special compared to other jobs, but all the jobs get broke. Reflect messed up so many encounters lol. Or in FFIX you even had reflect x2 which was ridiculous (x2 damage on stuff that was reflected). "but death is OP" meanwhile I'm facing the boss immune to death but I can gil toss him into the ground and haven't had a use for my gil in like 35 hours.

Relying on Asura sounds both fun and scary, what if she shows the wrong face XD.

[ADVSS]

First- nice job, I like having that big list next to each other with the purpose of the skill even.
Second- reading the list, it reads exactly like a job made for offensive support to me.. "just" like Summoner is (in games that don't have jobs, like FFVII or FFX, then read it as the menu sub command).

I could see Summoner become multi-role, especially if you wanted to give summoner a boat load of summons, but it feels absolutely fine under the mostly damage with some support section (and the effects that blue mage offers, many summons have done too, like KO, healing, raising, debuffs, etc).

This is actually funny because pre ShB/SB Summoner had a somewhat workable tank pet, and then 2 dps pets(still does, but i had seen some clever SMN use titan egi as our tank on bosses if tanks died or whatnot, moreso in Deep Dungeon runs, but i wont count those)

I was thinking the same thing looking over the lists. XI just magnified the amount of spells BLU traditionally had by a long margin, but most seem to say "an attack that does this also" mainly looks like, most a damage/debuffer which i mean.. it seems to fit. I never really considered older BLU a healer, or a tank either to be honest. though i guess the original conception of it, in V did equip swords and wear medium heavy armor. I am still confused about this all 3 roles in one thing. XI BLU's werent even pure i bet. I bet they had /WHM and now they are good tank/healers, as was explained to me about the subjob system

I could be wrong though, naybe BLU was an exclusive job in XI which you had to be pure with no subjob, so they slammed in those non traditional refresh and healing spells to make it semi comparable to the other jobs with actual subjobs.

[MaraD_]

I am still confused about this all 3 roles in one thing. XI BLU's werent even pure i bet. I bet they had /WHM and now they are good tank/healers, as was explained to me about the subjob system

I could be wrong though, maybe BLU was an exclusive job in XI which you had to be pure with no subjob, so they slammed in those non traditional refresh and healing spells to make it semi comparable to the other jobs with actual subjobs.

Im honestly confused by what you're saying here. I tried rereading it a few times, and Ive given up. ^^;

When BLU released in FFXI, I started off using the /WHM SJ. Its usually the best SJ until you reach Lv10+ for parties in the dunes. With Headbutt (constant stunning, to lessen the amount of damage i take) mixed with cocoon (doubling my defense w/o penalty to offense) I noticed I could act just like a PLD tank, spamming pollen to generate threat/heal, and headbutt to stun and do dmg. (Later Bludgeon for large DPS)
BLU tanking worked pretty well, and using /WAR for provoke, and defender worked good enough for all level ranges.

As for BLU as a healer, it was pretty much a better version of SMN/WHM healers. You relied on the cure spells from /WHM until you gained natural heals to target other people.
(I forget what the other heal spells names were, as I only played BLU healer 3 times, at 3 different level ranges.) SMNs start to have issues healing with only cure3 around the upper Lv50 range. But at that point, you really need a solid team to level up, since monsters were no longer push overs. You needed a party who was built reasonably, and not just a bunch of random jobs.
BLU happened to get a potent heal around the Lv50 range, that was closer to that of cure4, or at least stronger than cure3. So they were better than SMNs for main healing imo.
BLU also had an A rank in its own magic (obviously) which means they could enfeeble mobs better than WHMs could. So weakening the mob enough to not kick the crap out of your tank was very helpful. Lastly, BLUs could maintain MP better than RDMs with MP Drain Kiss, and a Dark Staff.
I forget how, but there was a way to make it better than normal, but most BLUs never bothered doing it, despite the massive DPS increase it was to do it. I usually did ~85% of the parties dps. (PTs were 6 people. 3 DPS, and the other 3 were tank, healer, refresher. but i doubt the tank/healer/refresher did 1% of the parties DPS, so it was just in comparison to the other 2 DPS) BLUs either did absolutely terrible DPS, or absolutely broken DPS. It depended on the enemy type you were fighting. This MP Drain kiss method only worked on certain types of enemies(that had MP), and sometimes ppl chose to fight different mobs, so as not to compete with other groups.
Back on point, a BLU healer could go far longer with heal spamming than a normal WHM. Also if the refresher was a BRD, it was possible to debuff the enemy as the BLU, where as WHM would struggle.

BLUs biggest problem was that is was never actually great at anything. It COULD tank, but its threat was far lower than PLD RDM NIN or DRK tanks. (most ppl didnt allow RDMs or DRKs to tank, since they didnt realize how much threat they could generate) The onlys job in the game that generated less threat than a BLU were the pet jobs (excluding PUP, im not sure which could generate more, but probably BLU still)
It COULD DPS, but it was worse at ranged/magical DPS than the ranged/caster DPS. It COULD melee, but was worse at it than almost all the melee (exception being pet jobs, as some of them did worse, or roughly tied with BLU)
It COULD heal, but be worse than RDM and WHM (And eventually SCH) IDK about DNC, as I know BLU went through a lot of changes after I left, and I know DNC went through a bit as well.
The only role it couldnt do too well, was be a refresher. (I believe that has changed since i left) I did however play the role of refresher twice. (At Lv50+) because no BRD or RDM was looking for group, and both groups thought they could actually kill a monster w/o a refresher. (Both wiped on the 1st monster pull.) I switched to /BRD to give a single +1mp refresh, and focused on debuffs/buffs/heals, in order to keep the healers MP going through the fight, so we could chain monsters.
(I actually got kicked out of the 1st group, because "My DPS wasnt high enough" and they only wanted me for my DPS, despite BLUs being terrible DPS at the place they picked to grind. I couldnt possibly DPS w/o MP, and the tank always died before the mob got to half HP, since the healer was always out of MP. I switched to /BRD, and we were chaining mobs now, even if only to chain3. After that group, another group saw what I was doing, and wanted me to replace their RDM who logged out. We continued on chaining just fine, roughly 5-6, which was the average. The prior group got another DPS, and they went back to being unable to kill a single monster, and eventually broke apart.)

Anyways, most endgame groups didnt like BLU since its "Jack of all trades" just meant they had someone who wasnt good at anything. BLU always had a role it could switch to, based on the fight, to be more useful than "useless".
In omega or ultima, it was an HP/INT based caster using Breath spells. (But not in both, it was only one of those 2, i forget which. for the other, it was /WHM healer, since it couldnt DPS) In some sorta ToAU boss, it stacked defense/attack, and was essentially a melee DPS with Canonball.
In one of the dragon fights, it could only tank or heal. most groups already had a PLD or NIN tank, so they were usually asked to be a healer, despite being more useful as a tank in that fight. (Though still worse than a PLD for that fight)
I got lucky, and my dynamis group let me do any role I wanted as BLU, and I honestly changed it all the time, depending on how lazy I felt. (They preferred BLUs to be /whm healing)

In smaller fights, like story boss fights, BLU excelled at being too much of everything, and bosses in story fights had lower stats than normal mobs, but way more HP. So BLUs spells were almost never resisted, and allowed for their broken nature to really shine. They could be anything, but they were almost always DPS with a few broken support/healer/tank abilities. (Dependent on fight)

I know BLU went through a lot of changes when I left, and they raised the level cap. I heard it was more of a solo job, thats good solo, but sucks in parties, since its just weaker at everything, but got more healing/tanking/support options than it had when i left.

[ADVSS]

Im honestly confused by what you're saying here. I tried rereading it a few times, and Ive given up. ^^;

Sorry for the confusion, but literally as explained to me, almost any job could fill roles with proper subjobs it seems. Ninja evade tanks, Summoner healers, etc. but if there were no subjobs in xi, then what would you classify it as? Was sort of my point(you elaborated exactly what i meant when you said you discovered that by giving it /war etc it could actually tank). The same with RDM rage when it was a caster dps that occaisionally moved in for melee in xiv. XI has a cool concept, that the cross class system in xiv -could- have emulated for more role definition and gameplay flexibility, but alas it didnt. I had typed up a "what if" years ago if they had taken from 2.0 the idea of creating job paths through classing, similarly to sch/smn, but probably moreso in the vein of a hyper customizable but limited XI - based cross class system to create jobs(meaning, warriors didnt just use big axe, they had a variety of weapons, for which 'weaponskills' would come from, not level progression in the job necessarily. The skills gained from level/job progression would be mostly what cooldowns(like 2.0s cross class skills but less restrictive) and traits[like equip 2 handed weapons, or equip 2 weapons]). Started off with 8 disciples of war, and 8 disciples of magic. Made over 44 jobs from combinations.

[Shougun]

This is actually funny because pre ShB/SB Summoner had a somewhat workable tank pet, and then 2 dps pets(still does, but i had seen some clever SMN use titan egi as our tank on bosses if tanks died or whatnot, moreso in Deep Dungeon runs, but i wont count those)

I was thinking the same thing looking over the lists. XI just magnified the amount of spells BLU traditionally had by a long margin, but most seem to say "an attack that does this also" mainly looks like, most a damage/debuffer which i mean.. it seems to fit. I never really considered older BLU a healer, or a tank either to be honest. though i guess the original conception of it, in V did equip swords and wear medium heavy armor. I am still confused about this all 3 roles in one thing. XI BLU's werent even pure i bet. I bet they had /WHM and now they are good tank/healers, as was explained to me about the subjob system

I could be wrong though, naybe BLU was an exclusive job in XI which you had to be pure with no subjob, so they slammed in those non traditional refresh and healing spells to make it semi comparable to the other jobs with actual subjobs.

Yeah in FFXI you had this concept of a sub job which would in essence give you half your level of the other job. So if you were like level 40 you'd /also/ have level 20 of the other in your kit. This is how Summoner would main as healer because summoners in that game had crazy mp and so they then sub job white mage and spam their cures. Emnity in that game was easy to obtain so spamming low level spells allowed you to dodge that issue too, like if you were casting big spells you could easily steal hate - cast benediction and you stole the whole zone's hate lol.

So Blu could become main healer after they learned magic fruit which was akin to cure 3.5 but low mana cost and white mage as their subjob. Plus some cure related items. Of course in the game not only did they have subjobs but weapons weren't as strict, so you could have a bow as a Samurai for example. This allowed for some quite high diversity in builds. FFXIV is very very strict in comparison, but it makes the builds easier to tighten up for both balance but also mechanical interest (cool mechanics that relate to each other).

BLU if you weren't trying to do something funky was absolutely a damage dealer first though, and they were pretty good at it. But due to the subjob system you could do some funky stuff. I still remember when Dragoon / Samurai allowed you to basically endlessly spam penta thrust due to the TP gain from Samurai lol.

Also in general since you commented to me you weren't sure what they mean about all roles in one, I think what they're describing is this idea that limited -> normal.. like literally as it is (with maybe a few tweaks). So that means Blue Mage would be able to be a tank, healer, or DD based on what role they queued for and the Mimicry they had loaded.

[MaraD_]

the subjob system you could do some funky stuff. I still remember when Dragoon / Samurai allowed you to basically endlessly spam penta thrust due to the TP gain from Samurai lol.

Technically not "funky" as that was the sole intentional design of how DRG was meant to be played. The interviews explained they ruined DRG by doing that, but also had the mentality that the players would eventually come up with a tactic they didnt forsee, and so they usually didnt bother fixing "nerfed" jobs. Only "too OP" jobs/abilities.
Of course the players didnt come up with a work around, but the developers came up with an alternative way to fix DRG, which was an indirect fix.
(1) Help all 2handers accuracy in ToAU.
(2) Make very low HP enemies who were weak to piercing damage. (This also helped THF, as it was also considered rather weak, and could use piercing dmg on the same enemy variety)
When it came to endgame, DRG was mostly fine as it was, so they didnt need to fix it for endgame bosses, so thats why they stuck to this halfhearted bandaid fix.

EDIT: according to the devs, regarding BLU, western players used BLU as a melee DPS. Japanese players mostly saw it as an equivalent to SMN. A job thats meant to be a Caster, but better off being used as a healer. (Most JP groups didnt let BLU DPS) The Devs said they personally saw BLU as mostly a Caster DPS. They mentioned this, as justification for nerfing BLUs melee DPS, and buffing nukes. BLU did need the buff to nukes, but the melee nerf was uneeded, as BLU was already one of the weakest DPS on normal mobs past Lv27. BLU didnt get most of its magical DPS until later, so this left BLU with a large level gap of being a really crappy DPS. (Roughly half the DPS of a normal damage dealer) and other gaps at the tail end, and start of this gap, which made it just slightly weaker. (maybe 20%? These are of course rough estimates)
So the devs did confirm there were intended to be DPS (Caster, not melee mage) but were also given options to be helpful in other fronts. (Melee options were intended for tanking, not for DPS, since they assumed u would be in melee range if u tanked, and melee spells should be weaker, since they didnt have cast bars. Im pretty sure they embraced the melee BLU at some point after i quit)

[Shougun]

Technically not "funky" as that was the sole intentional design of how DRG was meant to be played. The interviews explained they ruined DRG by doing that, but also had the mentality that the players would eventually come up with a tactic they didnt forsee, and so they usually didnt bother fixing "nerfed" jobs. Only "too OP" jobs/abilities.
Of course the players didnt come up with a work around, but the developers came up with an alternative way to fix DRG, which was an indirect fix.
(1) Help all 2handers accuracy in ToAU.
(2) Make very low HP enemies who were weak to piercing damage. (This also helped THF, as it was also considered rather weak, and could use piercing dmg on the same enemy variety)
When it came to endgame, DRG was mostly fine as it was, so they didnt need to fix it for endgame bosses, so thats why they stuck to this halfhearted bandaid fix.

EDIT: according to the devs, regarding BLU, western players used BLU as a melee DPS. Japanese players mostly saw it as an equivalent to SMN. A job thats meant to be a Caster, but better off being used as a healer. (Most JP groups didnt let BLU DPS) The Devs said they personally saw BLU as mostly a Caster DPS. They mentioned this, as justification for nerfing BLUs melee DPS, and buffing nukes. BLU did need the buff to nukes, but the melee nerf was uneeded, as BLU was already one of the weakest DPS on normal mobs past Lv27. BLU didnt get most of its magical DPS until later, so this left BLU with a large level gap of being a really crappy DPS. (Roughly half the DPS of a normal damage dealer) and other gaps at the tail end, and start of this gap, which made it just slightly weaker. (maybe 20%? These are of course rough estimates)
So the devs did confirm there were intended to be DPS (Caster, not melee mage) but were also given options to be helpful in other fronts. (Melee options were intended for tanking, not for DPS, since they assumed u would be in melee range if u tanked, and melee spells should be weaker, since they didnt have cast bars. Im pretty sure they embraced the melee BLU at some point after i quit)

Really really early on in FFXI the multi hit combos used to give more tp back, so with samurai dragoon could near endlessly go from weapon skill to weapon skill. You're right that they made other changes to two handed weapons and stuff, but long long ago tp from multi hit attacks got a bit silly and they went out of their way to nerf it (iirc monk had this with their relic and their 8 fold attacks). Although that they nerfed it wasn't the point, just that by having certain sub jobs your play style shifted massively.


That we don't have that system, so the variety FFXI offered doesn't necessarily translate well here and that the variety wasn't a reflect on your main job as much as it was a reflection on your main & sub job together (like SMN/WHM makes you a main healer, but SMN on its own in that game was not a main healer). BLU / WHM is a main healer but BLU / NIN is definitely not.

Which again isn't to say you can't have blue be kind of special here in FFXIV, it's just that using FFXI comes with a whole bunch of funk that we don't have here and so BLU / WHM isn't necessarily == BLU. BLU is == to BLU (so like in FFXI if you never added a subjob to your BLU they'd be an awful main healer but still not a bad damage dealer). Although I want to add I agree with you that often the funk was intended lol.

As an aside I played BLU as a caster first (most of my time spent casting, although of course I absolutely took advantage of weapon skills and self combo'ing if there wasn't someone to work with), and didn't have anyone try to correct me on the western way to play (calling it that since you mentioned it like that, honestly first time I heard of it, but I also didn't read much in the way of guides)- but my name sort of got me into a lot JP parties even if I didn't talk almost at all so.. lol /shrug.