A player thinks, frankly, too much about improving PvP

[Sauteed]

I don't want to discourage any honest hope to see PvP improve, but some thoughts from me are that rewards will not improve the pvp experience, there are new rewards for me to grind for, but i have no intention to pvp to get the rewards, because in my opinion the pvp itself is horrible and I do not enjoy it at all. It is a shallow husk of what it is supposed to be I think. It offers nothing outside of a mount here, or a glam there, maybe orchestrion rolls which to me are the only slightly tempting thing I'll endure it for but I've as of yet to build up the desire to go for that. If something needs rewards to make it something you would play it is a good indication that the content is either extremely poorly designed or just bad, and the proof is that it NEEDS a reward to be engaging for someone to be slightly interested in it.

There are no real rewards I value particularly from doing palace of the dead, I still do that from time to time because to me, it is fun. I have no real benefit to leveling an alt other than just having more inventory space, or checking out another world or seeing the msq again in the context of doing all the running around, but I still do it because I find it an enjoyable experience.

That being said, there is just absolutely nothing appealing to me about current XIV pvp. It's just in utter need of total rework, and all modes are just trash garbage to me.

[Tristamwolf]

It offers nothing outside of a mount here, or a glam there, maybe orchestrion rolls which to me are the only slightly tempting thing I'll endure it for but I've as of yet to build up the desire to go for that. If something needs rewards to make it something you would play it is a good indication that the content is either extremely poorly designed or just bad, and the proof is that it NEEDS a reward to be engaging for someone to be slightly interested in it.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily agree with your conclusion in this part. True, content should be fun for the sake of being fun, but especially with something that is naturally going to have a smaller draw by it's nature such as PvP, rewards act as additional incentives for people to engage with the content. Especially with as much content as there is to do in the game, with basically everything having a reward of some sort, the percentage of players who would be willing to engage with PvP solely for the prestige is likely close to zero (as even the players who like PvP would likely prefer to spend their time on something that offers other possible rewards)

There are no real rewards I value particularly from doing palace of the dead, I still do that from time to time because to me, it is fun. I have no real benefit to leveling an alt other than just having more inventory space, or checking out another world or seeing the msq again in the context of doing all the running around, but I still do it because I find it an enjoyable experience.

Palace of the Dead provides EXP for jobs as well as items that can be sold, so even if some players engage would engage with that content purely for the joy of playing PotD without ANY rewards whatsoever, I doubt there would be enough to make the content viable for anything but the most niche appeal. I don't really compare Alts/NG+ to other content as the primary experience is very much a re-engagement with the story, so it's more like the reason someone might rewatch a movie or reread a book rather than reason people might requeue for Feast

That being said, there is just absolutely nothing appealing to me about current XIV pvp. It's just in utter need of total rework, and all modes are just trash garbage to me.

Is there something in particular you can point to in PvP that is not engaging for you? Your feedback about rewards was worth discussion, but this last bit in particular is just bashing PvP for the sake of bashing PvP and wouldn't give them anything to work towards beyond 'not this'. The design space of things which are not what FFXIV is currently doing for PvP is just far too wide open to actually do anything with feedback that is 'this sucks, I don't wanna play it', so I hope you can give us a better idea of things that make the PvP less fun for you from a gameplay standpoint!

[Sauteed]

Is there something in particular you can point to in PvP that is not engaging for you? Your feedback about rewards was worth discussion, but this last bit in particular is just bashing PvP for the sake of bashing PvP and wouldn't give them anything to work towards beyond 'not this'. The design space of things which are not what FFXIV is currently doing for PvP is just far too wide open to actually do anything with feedback that is 'this sucks, I don't wanna play it', so I hope you can give us a better idea of things that make the PvP less fun for you from a gameplay standpoint!

A few things, first of all, most of the "pvp" modes in this game are capture the flag. With the exclusion of The Feast, i feel like this complete dodges what I think of as pvp. A few games I've played in the past genuinely ensure you are fighting other players, not annoy them while they stand there and grab a blinky sparkly node of some sort. Sure most "modern pvp" games are like this, but I really don't play any of those either, for similar if not exactly the same reason. It's not pvp, it is annoying.

Additionally, the every one is just level 30. All stats are identical, everything is "too balanced" but not even really balanced at all aspect annoys me. This has been a huge issue for most of the people I've talked with but I won't go as far as to say "everybody" or "most" because I really don't know how most or "everybdoy" feels about it. I know it annoys me. Outside of the pvp aspects, there is really no impact on any other system of the game except gaining levels, and nothing I do outside of the pvp aspect has anything to do with anything IN pvp but, everything I do with pvp levels up my combat classes outside of the pvp world for some reason. I kind of feel that's a cheap way to draw someone's interest to it that has no real desire to play pvp in and of itself.

To double back on to one of your previous points about potd, I really just enjoy that. It's nice also that I get experience for it. If it gave NO experience, I'll admit I'd be less inclined to just go do that. I have not used the titles associated with POTD, and dont' do it to sell items either. I do it because sometimes I get the itch to go do it, I'm not sure it's the random floors, or changing music or random challenges and hurdles it throws at you at the start of each level, but it is a charming game play mode, and a nice alternative to queue'ing up for a roulette sometimes. I don't recall ever getting tomestones or other items like wolfmarks for ever doing potd, but I have many times over chosen to do Potd in place of leveling roulettes or other things for experience points.

PVP on the other hand is often littered with people who just queue up and go auto run into a wall or enemy base and is usually coupled with teams purposefully throwing a match to ensure some other group get a victory. To further add to this kind of jambled mess of "features" now you can only join pvp as a freelancer and can't choose to be only your Grand Company. The "lore" behind pvp or reasoning behind it is bizarre to me. I know the "Eorzean Alliance" doesn't want to go to war with each other but they want what the pvp areas give, like some kind of tomestones etc, so nothing done in those battle zones will ever be somethign they can hold against each other, but what functions like that in real life? We could look into how proxy wars really work in war torn zones in the world and I assure you, the repercussions are there and much worse than people are led to believe. It has not teeth, there is no kind of investment in it on any level for me. It's like a good ol waste of time. It doesn't matter how ready I am to win, I'll usually queue up and see 1 person making the big calls, and about 15 other people do anything but that and die horribly and blame someone or start cutting insults the whole time. That's kind of par for the course for most pvp games i've played but it's just annoying the framework we are given. Also the removal of smaller teams being able to queue up for some early or off hours pvp hurts what is already there.

The skills being "stream lined" is helpful in some ways, but also really just a further detachment I have with pvp. Some skills do something completely different altogether than their pve equivalents. The everyone gets 3 healing potions bugged me, I could list things that annoy me about pvp but I rarely just bash something to bash it. I honestly have said much on the forums about pvp. It was part of the reason I signed up for the forums. My distaste is quite real, and in my eyes as legitimate as any other player of the game.

[Tristamwolf]

A few things, first of all, most of the "pvp" modes in this game are capture the flag

It is true that Frontlines tends towards objective-based game modes, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. The Feast provides a more competitive 4v4 Arena setup, there is 1v1 Dueling on the Wolves' Den Pier (which could probably use better systems around it), and Rival Wings is based on MOBA gameplay of pushing objectives and eventually destroying the enemy base. All of these encourage players to engage in PvP with one another in different ways rather than every game mode simply being Team Death Match all over again. Sure, not all of these game modes will reward players for ignoring everything but their kill count, but if you've ever seen the mess that happens when all 3 teams in Frontlines try to duke it out over a single point, you'd know that having a roughly 72 person PvP fight gets messy and impossible to read anyways, so creating systems that require players to strategize when to fight as a giant blob of instant death and when to split off into smaller squads creates more interesting and engaging PvP combat as a result of the match type.

All stats are identical, everything is "too balanced" but not even really balanced at all aspect annoys me

I can understand the desire for a game to be balanced better; that's something that exists in basically every game that allows players a choice in class/character, but the stat syncing is definitely something that helps with balance rather than hurting it so I don't see how that fits into the balance complaint. I will concede that the game could probably be balanced better, I've never been so far into PvP that I could tell you with certainty what class is poorly tuned by what degree (unless that degree is 'ungodly', of course)

PVP on the other hand...

(shortened because character limit)
Sadly, some people will throw matches pretty hard just because the Roulette EXP buff is the same whether you win or lose and whether the match is 5 minutes or 30 minutes. If someone is intentionally throwing or is cussing people out or something like that, it's (IMO) a problem better treated as an outlier to be handled by the GMs than as a systemic problem to be solved by player discussion. As for the lore aspect, it did become a LOT weaker when they started forcing freelance at all times. it'd be a lot better if it at least had a stated preference to your GC so you only got freelanced during off hours or if NOBODY is queuing for a certain faction. That being said, I view the lore justifications as closer to war games with rewards than proxy wars. All three factions agreed to both the terms of the competition and to the rewards to be doled out for them, so this isn't like the GCs are legitimately striking at one another through cats' paws or anything.