Thread: Question about 5.3 character (spoilers)

Hi i'd like to know how, what appeared to be emet'selch, showed up and helped the MC against elidibus.

I'm asking this as my understanding of emet'selch, is that he is a tempered subject of zodiark and as such shouldn't be able work against the rejoining.

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

He tells us that he was Tempered, but there's some contention there.

1. He could have been lying to draw the conversation to a close, as it was paining him.

2. He told the truth, but not the whole truth. He is tempered, but the tempering effect is weakened on him, because Zodiark was split by Hydaelyn. This gave him enough agency to lay his own will in place for the events of 5.3.

3. Due to being an Unsundered Ascian vs. a Sundered Primal, his will became stronger than Zodiark's, He is no longer tempered at all, until Zodiark is fully restored.

Possibly also:

4. Tempered can be released from servitude upon death, as happened with Nael in the cutscene following Coil 9.

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

He tells us that he was Tempered, but there's some contention there.

1. He could have been lying to draw the conversation to a close, as it was paining him.

2. He told the truth, but not the whole truth. He is tempered, but the tempering effect is weakened on him, because Zodiark was split by Hydaelyn. This gave him enough agency to lay his own will in place for the events of 5.3.

3. Due to being an Unsundered Ascian vs. a Sundered Primal, his will became stronger than Zodiark's, He is no longer tempered at all, until Zodiark is fully restored.

While these are not bad or wrong reasonings I would have liked to see a way for Emet, to break free from the will of Zodiark shown in game.
Where as my own understanding of the strength of a tempering comes from the two Alisaie quest lines with the goblin and the 'ra child, in Ahm Araeng, where the former, whilst not concluded shows no breaking from the tempering of titan. And the latter whilst not described as a tempering by an entity referred to as a primal, did show a level of regaining its personhood.

The reason I'm asking this is that I'd love to revel in the reformation of Emet as an ally, but the game has conditioned me into thinking it would not be possible for him to reform, even if he would want it.

Originally Posted by ZorkD

While these are not bad or wrong reasonings I would have liked to see a way for Emet, to break free from the will of Zodiark shown in game.
Where as my own understanding of the strength of a tempering comes from the two Alisaie quest lines with the goblin and the 'ra child, in Ahm Araeng, where the former, whilst not concluded shows no breaking from the tempering of titan. And the latter whilst not described as a tempering by an entity referred to as a primal, did show a level of regaining its personhood.

Ga Bu isn't tempered. He is suffering from extreme dissociation due to the traumatic events he experienced. I.e. witnessing his parents' deaths and summoning a primal. There's a bit of ambiguity in the story around this, where Alphinaud briefly expresses concerns that the koboldling may be tempered but if that were the case they would have executed him ages ago.

Sin eaters are not related to tempering. Having your body's aetheric balance overwhelmed and corrupted by the pure aether energy of light is something entirely different.

Originally Posted by ZorkD

Hi i'd like to know how, what appeared to be emet'selch, showed up and helped the MC against elidibus.

I'm asking this as my understanding of emet'selch, is that he is a tempered subject of zodiark and as such shouldn't be able work against the rejoining.

Technically, this happens after Emet is dead. We are essentially helped by the ghost produced by his lingering aether (as all other ghosts in the game are explained to be). The tempering most likely doesn't hold once they become aether and join the lifestream.

Theres also the option that is wasnt him - as you point out yourself: It appeared to be Emet'Selch, but that doesnt mean that he was actually there. Just how Haurchefaunt and Ysayle werent actually there at the end of Heavensward when we finished Nidhogg off.
It might have just been our characters imagination or maybe some sort of subconscious "summoning" born from the wish to see him again (or something along those lines).

My personal interpretation would be that its not the Emet'Selch we fought and traveled with who showed up but more a... mental image our character has of him. And in that mental image, Emet'Selch isnt a fiend anymore, but an ally. This mental image doesnt need to account for him being tempered or not, because its not the real Emet'Selch - maybe its what we saw in him in the end, maybe its what we wish he would have become, maybe its a hidden memory of Emet'Selch before the summoning of Zodiark, tucked away in our immortal soul, maybe its our wish to part with him on better terms than killing him...
I'm just pretty sure that its not Emet'Selch himself - hes dead, gone for good. So whatever we saw in the end, its not the same Emet'Selch who was tempered by Zodiark and worked against us.

Originally Posted by Vidu

My personal interpretation would be that its not the Emet'Selch we fought and traveled with who showed up but more a... mental image our character has of him. [...]
I'm just pretty sure that its not Emet'Selch himself - hes dead, gone for good. So whatever we saw in the end, its not the same Emet'Selch who was tempered by Zodiark and worked against us.

Ere Our Curtain Falls makes it quite clear that it's the real Emet-Selch's consciousness and not something the WoL dreamt up, or a pre-made illusion from the crystal.

It was him, released from the tempering, and no one can convince me otherwise! :P

Didn't Fandaniel say something about how Emet, "found a way" to do...something? I know someone mentioned something along those lines, and I want to know what they were talking about.