Help me be better!

[Spartan_Aoues]

I'll counter your 1 year of experience tanking, with my 5 years + of tanking experience, and further my experience in running many dungeons as melee, caster, ranged and healer, this is just annoying and infuriating. Nowadays, most people don't speak up in DF parties simple because of a subjective clause in the ToS that has become a sore point for many players, of risk saying something that someone will consider "generally offensive", and thus potentially having their account banned. Yes even something as simple as giving "unsolicited" advice. Then there is other alternatives such as, people just get on with, or too polite or too shy to speak up.

I can tell you for fact, this will be a detriment to their playstyle in dungeons, and there wouldn't be so many of us stating this as such if it wasn't true. I personally do not like chaining mobs, and I am heavily critical of any person that advocates for this sort of playstyle, so jabs there will be many. It's nothing personal, I just find it woefully stupid, as it carries no tangible benefit, versus having committed and controlled pulls, that allow for respite between packs.

Now typically, pulling wall to wall will ensure this doesn't actually come about, but that's up to the confidence level of the tank. Of course, there is some dungeons where this just isn't advisable, just something you pick up over time.

wait wtf has anyone been banned bc of this?

[Spartan_Aoues]

I'll counter your 1 year of experience tanking, with my 5 years + of tanking experience, and further my experience in running many dungeons as melee, caster, ranged and healer, this is just annoying and infuriating

5 years huh, wanna link ur logs?

Jokes aside ff14 is a very easy game there is no reason not to challenge yourself play optimally and get fast clears to boot.

Nowadays, most people don't speak up in DF parties simple because of a subjective clause in the ToS that has become a sore point for many players, of risk saying something that someone will consider "generally offensive", and thus potentially having their account banned. Yes even something as simple as giving "unsolicited" advice

this is alittle much

I can tell you for fact, this will be a detriment to their playstyle in dungeons, and there wouldn't be so many of us stating this as such if it wasn't true. I personally do not like chaining mobs, and I am heavily critical of any person that advocates for this sort of playstyle, so jabs there will be many. It's nothing personal, I just find it woefully stupid, as it carries no tangible benefit, versus having committed and controlled pulls, that allow for respite between packs.

instead of back seat gaming just let him try it out. If he likes it he can do it, if he doesn't he can stop. He doesn't need to be the best tank, just needs to improve.

Now typically, pulling wall to wall will ensure this doesn't actually come about, but that's up to the confidence level of the tank. Of course, there is some dungeons where this just isn't advisable, just something you pick up over time.

wait you consider wall to wall ok, but not chain pulling? Whats the difference? I think you need to define your terms

[Spartan_Aoues]

Hey! I have another question So I have been wall to wall pulling but I find sometimes I lose aggro on the occasional enemy, why is it doing this? Should I stop and regain the aggro then continue or just leave it for the DPS to drag towards me? Also do enemies reset if you drag them too far?

There are many reasons for this

1. regens: if a healer puts a regen on you and you get in range of a mob, the regen will heal you generating agro for your healer
2.dps: if you pull a mob with only 1 aoe attack, you wont generate enough agrro while you are pulling other packs, this doesnt always happen, but if it is you can use 2-3 aoes to get the aggro
3. tanks stance

[Spartan_Aoues]

at least ur logs are good

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

5 years huh, wanna link ur logs?

Jokes aside ff14 is a very easy game there is no reason not to challenge yourself play optimally and get fast clears to boot.

I mean I don't hide my logs or anything, if you wanna look, you know where to find them.
I am aware of playing optimally and trying to get fast clears, I do participate in some end game content.

instead of back seat gaming just let him try it out. If he likes it he can do it, if he doesn't he can stop. He doesn't need to be the best tank, just needs to improve.

It's as much back seat gaming as you saying he should chain pulling. Not saying to be the best tank, just pointing out, that you should to be conscious of other players, and how their jobs function, not just assume your way is correct. One of the core functions of a tank is holding mobs in place and reducing unnecessary movement, this extends to AoE situations too, not just bosses.

wait you consider wall to wall ok, but not chain pulling? Whats the difference? I think you need to define your terms

The difference with wall to wall versus chain pulling is, with wall to wall, you pull each pack until you reach the wall (point you can no longer advance/ last pack in the corridor) then everyone unloads their AoE in a big burst and get the most out of their skills. As long as the group is good, the mobs melt.
The worst method, chain pulling, pulling a new pack while there is still mobs from the previous pack still alive, everyone blows all their skills on the first set, nobody gets any respite, no HP/MP ticks, missing targets pulled out of AoE range/ casting range, and then have nothing to use on the fresh mobs that just got picked up.

Wall to wall is optimal, chain pulling is not, it serves only to be an annoyance to other party members.

[Spartan_Aoues]

I mean I don't hide my logs or anything, if you wanna look, you know where to find them. I am aware of playing optimally and trying to get fast clears, I do participate in some end game content.

Ya, shamefully they are better than mine. How do you get in the 90th percentile and still not know you can chain to pull in dungs. Maybe all these years of experience have made you forget what it was like to be new.

It's as much back seat gaming as you saying he should chain pulling.

I guess that is one way of interpreting it, although when you say

This is by far the worst thing you can do as a tank in a dungeon, it's just stupid and frustrates melee and casters for no reason

I don't think that is a constructive critique

generally yes u want to spam aoes until there are 2-3 mobs, at this point depending on your healer's mana just start to pull the next set of packs.

Notice how when I gave advice there was no judgment of condemnation, I didn't call op stupid or say he was a bad tank if he did so. Almost like I just wanted to give advice that he can take or leave if he wanted.

Not saying to be the best tank, just pointing out, that you should be conscious of other players, and how their jobs function, not just assume your way is correct. One of the core functions of a tank is holding mobs in place and reducing unnecessary movement, this extends to AoE situations too, not just bosses.

When I re-read my comment it reads like "This guy doesn't have to play optimally he can do this even if it's bad". What I mean when I wrote that comment was "Let him experiment when he tries this technique he will find it is better than just pulling 1 pack at a time"

The most "conscious" thing a tank can do is respect other players' time, and improve himself as a tank if he finds that this playstyle doesn't work then he doesn't have to but when it works, there is no reason not to use it.

I don't assume, this advice is based on my experience, neither did I say my way is correct I said he should experiment.

[Spartan_Aoues]

The difference with wall to the wall versus chain pulling is, with wall to wall, you pull each pack until you reach the wall (point you can no longer advance/ last pack in the corridor) then everyone unloads their AoE in a big burst and get the most out of their skills. As long as the group is good, the mobs melt.

The worst method, chain pulling, pulling a new pack while there are mobs from the previous pack still alive, everyone blows all their skills on the first set, nobody gets any respite, no HP/MP ticks, missing targets pulled out of AoE range/ casting range, and then have nothing to use on the fresh mobs that just got picked up.

Wall to wall is optimal, chain pulling is not, it serves only to be an annoyance to other party members.

Why wouldn't they get hp/mp ticks?
Why wouldn't their skill be off cd?

If you have 10 mobs in a wall-wall and can only tank 9 or its a wipe, do you tank 9 then wait for all CDs, health, and mana, before you pull the last pack?

If you cleave a 9 pack to 2-3 mobs with 10% health, does your IQ drop 10 points if you pull the last pack with 3 mobs, mind you I didn't say always do this, I said to watch healers mana. So explain to me again how optimal waiting for full mana and health for 1 pack is.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Ya, shamefully they are better than mine. How do you get in the 90th percentile and still not know you can chain to pull in dungs. Maybe all these years of experience have made you forget what it was like to be new.

Well, okay then. Maybe you're completely deluded so you result to personal attacks because you hate the fact people are telling you, your way is actually s**t.

Yes, you claiming I'm backseat gaming is hypocritical, as it is the exact same as you telling OP to try it your way, they're both backseat gaming. However you want to spin it, it is still backseat gaming.

As for you not thinking my description as not critique, I have explained many time why your method is awful. If you can't even take any points raised on board for consideration, you're beyond being able to speak to any further on this topic.

Maybe when you actually find yourself on the receiving end you might actual open up to the idea that maybe, running off to a new pack, while still got almost dead mobs from a previous pack is annoying for everyone else involved.

Also, please do not add hypothetical situations, that attempts to stack the argument in your favour, that will never actually come about in game.

[Spartan_Aoues]

Well, okay then. Maybe you're completely deluded so you result to personal attacks because you hate the fact people are telling you, your way is actually s**t.

aww shit here we go again. But ur right, ur a poop poop head.

Yes, you claiming I'm backseat gaming is hypocritical, as it is the exact same as you telling OP to try it your way, they're both backseat gaming. However you want to spin it, it is still backseat gaming.
As for you not thinking my description as not critique, I have explained many time why your method is awful. If you can't even take any points raised on board for consideration, you're beyond being able to speak to any further on this topic.

I think one of the only things we agree that this convo has long since broken down, look dude if you think its annoying to chain pull and tanks that do that are stupid then, I can't change ur mind.

Maybe when you actually find yourself on the receiving end you might actual open up to the idea that maybe, running off to a new pack, while still got almost dead mobs from a previous pack is annoying for everyone else involved.
Also, please do not add hypothetical situations, that attempts to stack the argument in your favour, that will never actually come about in game.

Why don't we take this out of the realm of theory and take it to the actual game. Lets get Op's item lvl and dung of his chooses and we can test it out our selves. If you can somehow pull faster numbers by waiting in-between pulls then I can not doing that I would gladly say it is better then chain pulling.

The rules are simple, we wanna test if it is indeed more efficent to chain pull, or not.

First for this to be an efficient test we have to have a low enough ilvl that wall to wall is out of the option, if we can wall to wall we dont need to chain pull.

Second we need to have the same stats and class, we can go with the palidin since op is currently lvling one.

Lastly we must use party finder and run the same dung maybe 5 times taking the best of the five with the strat of our chooseing

record your 5 runs and the forums will judge who is good or not.

If op isnt reading this, It doesn't have to be op, if we can get an item lvl low enough, or a dung hard enough that wall to wall is impossible from anyone that would work just as well.