Help me be better!

[Spartan_Aoues]

This is a not a good means to using cooldowns, outside of maybe timing tank invulns in Savage or Ultimate. Really you should not use cooldowns that close to the boss finishing its cast, but instead try to use your cooldowns early, in advance of tankbusters, as mitigating auto attacks before tankbusters and after can help healers immensely. Also the sooner you use them, the sooner you get them back off of cooldown. Of course pre popping your cooldowns comes with learning a fight first.

I actually agree with alot of this especially in dungs where getting the most out of ur cds is linked to how many times you can use them. However when it comes to savage or other linear fights the number of cds you will use is static they are made in a way that you will always have cds for a tank buster even if you use them late. Also the purpose of having late cds is to increase the mig up time after a buster, giving healers more room to heal. Before a tank buster your health will be topped up or close to it, you dont need mig on that damage, but if a buster takes you to 40%(mig) health auto dealing 5%(un mig) haveing a 20-30 mig will have a greater impact.

This is by far the worst thing you can do as a tank in a dungeon, it's just stupid and frustrates melee and casters for no reason, and even Physical ranged too to some degree.

Ya i don't know why you are throwing jabs, if you don't wanna play like this you don't have too. In my 1 year of tanking I have never had anyone complain about this playstyle. I won't force you to do it but op is asking how they can improve their gameplay, and this is one way.

[Spartan_Aoues]

A good tank will commit to the pull they have made, and will wait until the mobs are dead before proceeding to the next pack.

The reason you pull the next set when prev set is low is 1.dps will kill mobs before or during the next pack pulls 2. reduces healing requiremented letting healers reposition for next packs put regs or dps 3.faster and soother dung experience

You prevent doubling the sprint duration received from being out of combat or prevent the use of Peleton from physical ranged, and the increased HP / MP ticks out of combat too

I usualy save sprint so more of a def cd to give a buffer from auto attack so healers can heal. But there is no need to use out of combat sprint as most dungs have walls that prevent you from moving until you clear the next pack. The only time i would use sprint other then as a def cd is during the pack pulls as i get the benefits of its def utility but also it lets me get all the mobs packed quicker, and resets the cd so it can be used more times. Also there is enough down time in-between packs that you done have to worry about health/mana ticks so there isnt a need to worry about that either.

, all the while dps are trying to kill the mobs that keep getting yoinked out of their range.

All dps can move and attack, they will lose any combo chains if they are not skilled at pos around mobs, but they don't need them if mobs are low health.

Be a good tank don't do this in dungeons.

cheeky

[Shanir]

Thank you for the responses

[AnotherPerson]

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

As a tank you pull 2+ waves -> pop 1 defensive cooldown. If you use reprisal, you can use reprisal + arms length. Otherwise, rampart/Nebula/Sentinel/Shadow Wall are all used one at a time. This is allowing your tank mitigations to go on rotation.

Sheltron for PLD is a special case because you get it by auto attacking with your oath gauge. Use it before a big attack, or use it during pulls in addition to your other mitigation to block and reduce incoming damage. Damage blocked stacks up in adds by a lot.


Wall to wall pulling is a thing and is generally considered the norm. To do wall to wall pulling, it depends on if your healer is competent, if your team is competent (DPS is good), and if you are competent. It also depends on if your gear is good enough to do so too. Before lv 50, it depends on the team composition because some jobs don't have their AoE until much later. If the healer and tank is overgeared usually they can cover the issue no problem, but if the healer is lacking, may it be gear or skill, then big pulls will be a bit more difficult unless you use potions. However, wall to wall pulling helps manage your mitigations + save healer more MP and cooldowns since small pulls run the risk of running out of mitigations faster.

AoE Spam is dependent on the job if I recall correctly. Generally on 3 or more enemies you AoE Spam for all jobs. If it's just 2 enemies, you can attack one, then hit the other one with your combo to simultaneously generate aggro for two. I believe DRK gets their full AoE rotation by level 72 where they actually have a net DPS gain on 2 or more enemies to AoE due to Stalwart soul restoring MP and filling the gauge.

If the healer doesn't give any signs that they're good, you can always do a test pull to figure out how your team works. If the healer doesn't mind letting your HP drop and DPS before healing you up, that generally is a sign that you can pull more since they don't feel the need to heal when the damage is low. After all, if the team isn't dead, then everyone is fine. If the healer is spam healing on the tiniest of damage you take (big overhealing), then you should be wary for big pulls because it means they're panicking or spam healing without properly managing their MP. Although it could work out and you could do big pulls, they could also zone out and forget to lucid dream + move out of AoE. If enemies are dying really slowly, then it's a sign that people are either undergeared or underperforming and big pulls will probably be a bad idea since you'll run out of migitations and healer will run out of resources.

[Spartan_Aoues]

At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown?

For max reductions as close to the end of the cast bar as u can get(depends on latency) you want the buff icon to appear before the cast bar is finished to register(depends on the attack some attack have a longer animation and can be mig later i think)

And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last

No in fact the 30% skills usually have the highest cds in boss fight that will take more the its duration its best if used first. If the fight is shorter use it the mig the highest hitting attack.

In big trash pulls the same applies, fast packs? use it lower cds so they will be up again.

, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

I assume u mean damage rotation and yes. but it also depends on how many mobs u pull. I don't play pld so i cant give tips here.

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

As the tank you are the leader of the party its up 2 u. You wont be able to pull wall to wall out right, but if u try pulling 2 packs then 3 packs you will eventually learn how to do wall to walls.

Generally wall to wall is the optimum strat for dungs. They are the fastest ways to get to end boss, and earn a lot of commendations. but they take time to learn.

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

generally yes u want to spam aoes until there are 2-3 mobs, at this point depending on your healer's mana just start to pull the next set of packs.

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

This is a good idea you want to ease your group into larger packs. pull 2 then 3 etc. You want to always be pushing ur group just alittle bit harder. But never to point of a wipe that costs more time, then if you just pulled 1-2 packs less.(unless ur wall -wall pulling then even if you die, if you have killed enough mobs its more efficient then pilling 2-3 packs)

It is really difficult giving up control of your health and relying on others (I usually play healer)

As a rule, if you healer has mana you are good, make sure they are around 10-20% mana before you think of slowing down.

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

on wall to wall pulls. if your healer is not pumping(out healing the damage) but still has mana you can pop ur sprint and run out of the range of the mobs autos. make sure to stay in your healers range by running back and forth. this will give you healer time to heal you and dps time to kill the mobs

[MsMisato]

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

]At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

Depends on the level of the dungeon really. You can blow thru trash mobs on lower levels super quick, so is somewhat dependent on how fast you move through the trash. Personally, I just run with rampart and shelltron during trash pulls. IF you use sentinel it should be the first cool down to pop since iwth on a 2 minute timer. Of course you can use hallowed ground, but personally I like to save it for the oh poop moments.

Though a big word on Hallowed ground. It is animation locked. That means you need to pop it when you have enough health to absorb a hit or two. If you lack the health and you get popped you can still die because it doesn't go into effect until the animation is done.

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

You can and I recommend wall to wall pulling. Its super fun, it pushes you to pay attention to everything as a tank which is a good thing. However, it is dependent on your healer's ability and how well the dps in the group can well dps.

As for final sting, good news, you can stun the hornets Most trash mobs are stunnable, susceptible to debuffs like arms length slow, kick, shield bash and so on.

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

Spam your aoes on 3 or more targets.

AOE rotation (not running to pull mobs) Eclipse>Prominence then the spell aoe part (which will be post level 70) Requiescant>holy circle x 4>confector and repeat. then when you drop to 2 mobs you can go to your normal target rotation which you can bounce between two mobs.

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

I usually ask the group if they are good with wall to wall as I see more and more new players, this is a good way to find out. Majority of times its big pulls.

If no one is responding, I will go single pulls and make a judgement call on whether or not a we can handle wall to wall. This means gauging on the dps and the healers ability.

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

Don't be afraid of dying. Its going to happen and its expected. Even the most perfect of runs can go south for whatever reason. Gear and food is a big thing for tanks. At end game, melds will be important as well. Definitely pop a visit to The Balance on Discord loads of good info there

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.

At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?

If you're pulling more than one pack of mobs, use sprint first before you've aggro'd if you have it available, as it allows you to outpace mobs so you take less autos as you move to the next pack.
Once you've got all the mobs together, pop Hallowed Ground first if two or more packs once you're about half health. If you have a WHM, that holy spams, it is worth waiting a bit as Holy is also an AoE stun so it would make Hallowed a little pointless.

When Hallowed isn't available, Sentinel > Rampart, weave in Sheltron as you can, once you're main cooldowns are on cooldown, make use of Reprisal and Arm's Length. If only a small single pack is all you can pick up, then just use light cooldowns.

Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.

So far it’s going ok except the disaster hull breaker isle (bloody final sting).

Wall to wall pulls take some getting used to but 50 dungeons is where it becomes more expected, while levelling dungeons, wall to wall pulls can be less expected due to gear discrepancies, and typically levelling dungeon mobs hit harder compared to level cap dungeons, but there is plenty of opportunity to do so.

Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.

Yes, 3 or more targets you Total Eclipse > Prominence until 2 mobs remain, then single target down the rest.
Once you reach level 72, you will get a spell called Holy Circle, which you will use on two mobs or more, for five uses while under the effect of Requiescat which you acquire at level 68, which boost your spells damage and healing by 50%, if you mp is above 80%. At level 80 you will swap the fifth Holy Circle for Confiteor, a heavy hitting AoE skill, only available under Requiescat. But don't worry too much about it until you get there.

Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?

Typically this is the worst way to gauge if a group is competent. If you pull one pack, the party wastes resources that could have been better used on more mobs, so the next pack has less resources to burn down. Honestly best advice I can give is go straight for the deep-end, and pull 2-3 packs, if you wipe you've learnt what the groups limits are, and you can adjust, but single packs are the worst means to test a groups capabilities.
You have to be used to wipes in this game they can happen often, and can be a good means to teach and help improve.

It is really difficult giving up control of your health and relying on others (I usually play healer)

Rule of thumb, only the last hp matters so don't panic if healers lets you get low, healers gotta DPS too. Typically I don't look at my health bar that often, try put a bit of trust in the healers.

Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.

there isn't a whole lot that hasn't already been mentioned so far for your level, especially that doesn't also extend out to the other three tanks. I would say look up single rotations for PLD, it's pretty straightforward at early levels, but it does help to understand it.
There is a decent bit more to PLD at 80, but nothing that you can't ask for help once you get there, if you need it, but most importantly try have fun with it, and don't let a few bad runs discourage you from keeping at it.

[Shanir]

Thanks everyone! Tanked yesterday went really well even managed to get a hard dungeon I haven’t done

[Spartan_Aoues]

Thanks everyone! Tanked yesterday went really well even managed to get a hard dungeon I haven’t done

gratz on your way to eden savage

[Mhaeric]

It's bad advice. The OP asked for help on how to be a better tank, not an annoying one.