Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[Irisdina_Wiloh]

Forgive me for not being able to read through every post but I did feel the need to weigh in a bit. The sensitivity issue in this game is real, and I see a lot of false equivalences going on in the discussion. When it comes to this game specifically ppl can be very reluctant to accept any advice.
"Hey white mage if you could just dot mobs in here it woukd be a huge help to our group" has either been met with outright no, the person ignoring me, or a vote kick. It definitely has felt like any discussion of how someone is playing can end in a downward spiral, even with the best intentions.
That said, I feel like we as a society need to do better in operating on good-faith, and one needs to be mindful of how they offer up advice. I have a theory that because its all over text ppl interpret things negatively first. Its just a condition of twitter/Facebook. We need to be kinder to one another, and I think we all could do well with a little extra humility.

Well said, I think we could all stand to be kinder to each other, especially with how things have been this year.

[Hazama999]

I can only speak from my experience, of course.

I don't personally talk much during roulettes, dungeons and whathaveyou... but in all 7 years of playing this game what stands out to me when it comes to negative interactions is passive-aggressiveness. It is as though passive-aggressiveness is the bread and butter of Duty Finder. It has been exceedingly rare for someone to be caustic in these instances of unpleasant player interactions. Nothing is ever really said "outright." I have hardly ever seen someone directly insult someone else during a DF run.

There are only statements with varying degrees of irony.

[Lium]

I dunno. I can't think of many other games with communities that outright refuse to get better or do the minimum the game allows you to do. That sorta selfishness on FFXIV's level is a unique bar that no other team games have been able to reach thus far.

You clearly have never played SWTOR where they don't even like to group in that game, because it's been re-designed over the years as a single player game for the most part. Doing any group-based content in that game is utterly painful.

As for the topic, this is kind of funny. I just spent this past weekend playing WoW and those dungeons are sleepwalks. Bosses die in like 10 seconds, yet the chief complaint on their forums is that everyone is terrible and doesn't want to get better. So, this just seems to be the standard gripe across the entire genre.

I will say this about the FFXIV community. It's a mixed bag. It has the reputation of being one of the best in MMOs, and on the surface that's true. Everyone is very nice and welcoming. But beneath the surface there's a lot of judgmental attitudes. If you make a mistake people will silently judge you or make passive aggressive comments. Recently, however, a lot of people are being more outspoken because of the growing playerbase. The problem is they don't understand what constructive criticism actually is, and will instead resort to flaming. Which is what they do in all the other MMOs out there.

[linayar]

I will say this about the FFXIV community. It's a mixed bag. It has the reputation of being one of the best in MMOs, and on the surface that's true. Everyone is very nice and welcoming. But beneath the surface there's a lot of judgmental attitudes. If you make a mistake people will silently judge you or make passive aggressive comments.

I feel like people are mistaking "best" with "flawless."

I won't claim that FFXIV has the best MMO community because I don't like to play most MMOs so I would be ignorant of their communities, but if FFXIV indeed has garnered a reputation for being the "best," pointing out any flaw or negative aspect wouldn't really detract from the claim. So to say it's a mixed bag or that it's only "best" on the surface seems disingenuous regarding the actual claim being made or apparent reputation. People are still people, and the more of them that congregate for a long period of time, the more conflict will arise out of ideological differences.

Granted, there may be people who are overselling it and claim that it's perfect, which could easily be disproven, but that still wouldn't make it necessarily not the best either.

[Lium]

I feel like people are mistaking "best" with "flawless."

I won't claim that FFXIV has the best MMO community because I don't like to play most MMOs so I would be ignorant of their communities, but if FFXIV indeed has garnered a reputation for being the "best," pointing out any flaw or negative aspect wouldn't really detract from the claim. So to say it's a mixed bag or that it's only "best" on the surface seems disingenuous regarding the actual claim being made or apparent reputation. People are still people, and the more of them that congregate for a long period of time, the more conflict will arise out of ideological differences.

Granted, there may be people who are overselling it and claim that it's perfect, which could easily be disproven, but that still wouldn't make it necessarily not the best either.

Not THE best. One of the best. And I went back and read some of the posts in this thread, and there's one right above me that talks about that passive aggressive attitude. So, it's something that's very prevalent here. That's not a slam, it's just stating the obvious.

[linayar]

Not THE best. One of the best. And I went back and read some of the posts in this thread, and there's one right above me that talks about that passive aggressive attitude. So, it's something that's very prevalent here. That's not a slam, it's just stating the obvious.

Right, it is what it is. And with a large enough of a community, people can have varying subjective experiences with it that can outright contradict each other.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

If it's a bad community masquerading as a good one just because they'd get the suspending slap on the wrist otherwise, at best it's average, at worst it's outright bad.

[linayar]

If it's a bad community masquerading as a good one just because they'd get the suspending slap on the wrist otherwise, at best it's average, at worst it's outright bad.

A community deals with people's interaction, so you being bad on your own has nothing to do with the community. Deterrence is a valid reason for punishment in law enforcement and expecting that a community can only be good if the people are truly good without law and order being necessary is unrealistic.

[Seddrinth]

[QUOTE=Hazama999;5448012]I can only speak from my experience, of course.

I don't personally talk much during roulettes, dungeons and whathaveyou... but in all 7 years of playing this game what stands out to me when it comes to negative interactions is passive-aggressiveness. It is as though passive-aggressiveness is the bread and butter of Duty Finder. It has been exceedingly rare for someone to be caustic in these instances of unpleasant player interactions. Nothing is ever really said "outright." I have hardly ever seen someone directly insult someone else during a DF run.

There are only statements with varying degrees of irony.[/QUOOTE]

That's because if you write something hostile you will get banned/suspended. So people have to express their displeasure more indirectly. Like if someone is dying to every mechanic, you can't just outright say "you suck" because u get reported so people will say something like "you're an amazing player." Or if you see someone doing 3k dps in level 80 gear, you can't say anything or you will get punished, so people will say "great job with dps!"

[linayar]

That's because if you write something hostile you will get banned/suspended. So people have to express their displeasure more indirectly. Like if someone is dying to every mechanic, you can't just outright say "you suck" because u get reported so people will say something like "you're an amazing player." Or if you see someone doing 3k dps in level 80 gear, you can't say anything or you will get punished, so people will say "great job with dps!"

It's one thing to not want to say something bad, but your examples just seem so unproductive to the point I wonder if they're real examples or just your exaggeration. If people are being told they're great when they're not, then I guess this community deserves what it gets in terms of the quality of players.