Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[Krotoan]

I already know the answer, but I'll still ask my question because you're the sort of person I've been referencing. What joy!

So, question is this: What is the downside for a player to improve so that that "decently quick enough" becomes "quick enough because did my part?"

You are making them play as they don't wish to play. That's the downside. The same could be said for the reverse of course but all parties have the same option to just drop or to kick. Both of which should be taken as simply a difference of playstyles IMO. No hard feelings, not personal just "I do not wish to play with you for whatever reason".

Also.. why are you coming off so sarcastically? "what joy!" indeed.

As a follow up, let me give a hypothetical. Quoting for visibility since this is the main part of the post, really.

Would you say this Dragoon, who LITERALLY DID NOTHING FOR HALF THE FIGHT, carried their weight? Did their part? Helped that... Oof, that was a long HYPOTHETICAL Ramuh normal... But helped it go "quickly enough?" Please, give me your insights. =)

I would say that micromanaging a random dragoon for a normal fight is getting far too involved in what other people are doing. Did you pass? Cool. None of the rest should be your concern. Did you fail? If you did THEN it's time to address where the failure is coming from and if super obvious , E.G. the dragoon is visibly not using skills or standing in things, that person can be voted out. You should not get overly involved with how someone else is playing if the content is being cleared in DF. If it is not being cleared to your liking you can remove yourself from the situation and/or give a non-accusatory suggestion. If you NEED things done a certain way make your own parties and don't rely on the game to bring you "good" players.

To address the second half of your post: 70% of the end game dungeon runs I've been in have had 1 or more of the following qualities: Single Pull tank, Zero DPS healer, non-AoE DPS, any of the 3 that clearly didn't know what they were doing. By the latter most, I'm not talking about "missed a CD here, missed a positional there." No, I'm talking on the scale of Black Mages using Transpose end game. Like, as part of their rotation. I had 2 of those in a row. They were indeed different Black Mages. Their AoE rotation was to spam freeze. The healers did more then them.

If any of those things are present, the dungeon run isn't going smoothly. 70% is a pretty large chunk, eh? Gets worse if you look at leveling 71-80. Oh boy. I leveled an Alt and a different job and I can say that I've seen some things.

I have leveled every single job and 2 alts and I can say the amount of noticeably bad players I've had to endure has been 2-3 a week (capping all tomes, doing all weekly lockouts) at most. So personal experiences may vary ( I am on sarg which I hear is notoriously "git gud") . I don't care if healers don't DPS, I don't care if tanks single pull, I don't care if other DPS single target. All of these things will still pass any DF content. If I want things done efficiently I'll make sure that happens myself. If I run a roulette I'm agreeing to deal with whatever I get. Someone is that bad? Kick em or leave. How would you take someone telling you that you were playing your character wrong? Probably not half as well as you say you would.

[Cilia]

Once you're fully leveled and into a full set of tome gear, it's rarely necessary to put a great deal of effort in for anything but EX / Savage / Ultimate content. Normal dungeons are a joke, and Hard (Normal) trials are just a matter of figuring out the dance and how to avoid the plentiful AoE attacks thrown out by bosses. I do make an effort to use cooldowns for trash packs but all said it's just not really necessary and I'd rather save them for the tankbuster move every boss seems to have these days.

... until the next expansion anyway, where players' complacency will lead to them dying as wizened tanks refuse to pull extra trash packs they rushed ahead to pick up off of them. (Speedrunning bleeding edge leveling content is not a viable tactic!)

[Darsien]

You are making them play as they don't wish to play. That's the downside. The same could be said for the reverse of course but all parties have the same option to just drop or to kick. Both of which should be taken as simply a difference of playstyles IMO. No hard feelings, not personal just "I do not wish to play with you for whatever reason".

Also.. why are you coming off so sarcastically? "what joy!" indeed.

So they INTENTIONALLY want to play poorly? Most other games call that trolling. Are you seriously advocating for trolling, or what's your game here?

I would say that micromanaging a random dragoon for a normal fight is getting far too involved in what other people are doing. Did you pass? Cool. None of the rest should be your concern. Did you fail? If you did THEN it's time to address where the failure is coming from and if super obvious , E.G. the dragoon is visibly not using skills or standing in things, that person can be voted out. You should not get overly involved with how someone else is playing if the content is being cleared in DF. If it is not being cleared to your liking you can remove yourself from the situation and/or give a non-accusatory suggestion. If you NEED things done a certain way make your own parties and don't rely on the game to bring you "good" players.

Ah, so doing absolutely nothing for half an instance is acceptable to you, huh? Hey everyone. Tell me another team game where going AFK for half of the overall time you're playing with the AFK person is acceptable.

It's not, dude. You should be ashamed. For the hypothetical Dragoon player of course. The one who totally wasn't you but was completely a made up random Dragoon. Can't kick an AFK player if you clear in the first pull and carry the AFK player. They received a reward they only half deserved. =(

I have leveled every single job and 2 alts and I can say the amount of noticeably bad players I've had to endure has been 2-3 a week (capping all tomes, doing all weekly lockouts) at most. So personal experiences may vary ( I am on sarg which I hear is notoriously "git gud") . I don't care if healers don't DPS, I don't care if tanks single pull, I don't care if other DPS single target. All of these things will still pass any DF content. If I want things done efficiently I'll make sure that happens myself. If I run a roulette I'm agreeing to deal with whatever I get. Someone is that bad? Kick em or leave. How would you take someone telling you that you were playing your character wrong? Probably not half as well as you say you would.

Oh, dear sweet summer child, I'm fully aware you don't care about anything. In addition, bad players can't tell when they're playing with bad players because they're stuck in a feedback loop. Or so I've heard. I would NEVER criticize another player.

Also, another advantage of learning to play well and do my part: I never get told I'm playing wrong because I'm always playing right. Gee. Sounds like it'd be a blessing for... SOME players.



A simple reminder: It's a team game. As a member of a team, likely random ones, YOU, YES YOU, READER, have a RESPONSIBILITY to know what you're doing. That hypothetical Dragoon didn't, and you wanna know what happened? 3 players died at the end of the fight, an end that they never would of seen if our hypothetical Dragoon did their part. No one likes dying. They had a net negative impact on 3 players and didn't even know it. =(

Don't be like the hypothetical Dragoon. Do your part. Let the dirt tank the floor instead of your teammates.

[Krotoan]

So they INTENTIONALLY want to play poorly? Most other games call that trolling. Are you seriously advocating for trolling, or what's your game here?

No, they want to play how they want to play comfortably. It's you calling it "poorly". It may also be the limit at which they are comfortable but keep thinking your standards and abilities are everyones.

Ah, so doing absolutely nothing for half an instance is acceptable to you, huh? Hey everyone. Tell me another team game where going AFK for half of the overall time you're playing with the AFK person is acceptable.

It's not, dude. You should be ashamed. For the hypothetical Dragoon player of course. The one who totally wasn't you but was completely a made up random Dragoon.

I'm saying that in the scheme of the game Mr Half instance AFK is unusual and easily ignored and left alone as long as content is cleared. I'm not the one having a (hypothetical) panic attack because some random in a game is probably eating a pizza and watching youtube instead of adderall focusing an instance I happen to be in. I'm already wasting time playing a video game, guy is maybe adding 10-15 minutes at most to this run. No skin off my nose.
Are you thinking that leveling a sub-par dragoon performance at me is going to be specifically triggering because I main Dragoon?

Oh, dear sweet summer child, I'm fully aware you don't care about anything. In addition, bad players can't tell when they're playing with bad players because they're playing with good company. Or so I've heard. I would NEVER criticize another player.

Your very unveiled accusations mean nothing. Care about what you do, don't focus on everyone else to try and make you feel good about yourself.

[Jaelommiss]

I had a long post typed out, but really it doesn't matter. Yes, the playerbase is full of poorly performing players who don't realize it due to SE's draconian rules. Yes, many of them get incredibly offended at the slightest implication that they could do better. Yes, the community bends over backwards to carry them.

I started running Mentor Roulettes recently. There have been tons of players who don't know how to maintain combos. Lots of tanks don't use defensive cooldowns or spam clemency at 80%. I've run into ice mages, no-dot archers (at levels they should be bards), freestyle SAMs with no buffs, no dancing DNCs, players with gear that wouldn't have been acceptable 20 levels prior, players who are allergic to mechanics, tanks toggling off their stance or not using aoe attacks, and more.

When I choose to say something I follow a "Please do X. It will Y" format to explain how they could do better and the reason behind it. Please use fire spells. It will increase your damage output. Please use your aoe attacks. It will help you keep aggro. Please dodge the glowing orange circles on the floor. It will help you avoid getting popped like a putrid zit. I get no response about 50% of the time, a positive response 20% of the time, and attacked for having the audacity to offer advice the remaining 30%.

I'm only 60 runs in and I'm already giving up on trying to help. Instead I've started saving screenshots of my magic calculator when I end up being top damage as an AST. Not just beating one or two people, but at the very top of the chart. It's already a sizeable folder and I fear I may need to purchase a new harddrive to store them all before I finish my 2000 runs.

[Darsien]

No, they want to play how they want to play comfortably. It's you calling it "poorly". It may also be the limit at which they are comfortable but keep thinking your standards and abilities are everyones.

Hey dude. I just want players to not AFK and to do a basic rotation. If that's too hard for someone, there are a TON of single player games out there for them. =)

I'm saying that in the scheme of the game Mr Half instance AFK is unusual and easily ignored and left alone as long as content is cleared. I'm not the one having a (hypothetical) panic attack because some random in a game is probably eating a pizza and watching youtube instead of adderall focusing an instance I happen to be in. I'm already wasting time playing a video game, guy is maybe adding 10-15 minutes at most to this run. No skin off my nose.
Are you thinking that leveling a sub-par dragoon performance at me is going to be specifically triggering because I main Dragoon?

Ah, so focusing ON CONTENT THAT YOU QUEUED FOR requires Adderall, huh? I'm sorry to hear you have such a debilitating addiction to narcotics! If you'd like, I can give you a few rehab resources to get you back on track. =)

Your very unveiled accusations mean nothing. Care about what you do, don't focus on everyone else to try and make you feel good about yourself.

Ah, but you see, when someone advocates for lazy, inconsiderate, selfish play, they open themselves up for criticism! Say our Hypothetical Dragoon was making the posts you are. I mean, if they were to... Say... Go afk for half the instance in all the recorded content I've got access to view, you know, HYPOTHETICALLY, I'd need to question their motives. Are they advocating for, to be blunt, TOXIC, selfish play because they think that's how it should be, or are they REALLY doing it because to not do so would mean that... GASP, they're a toxic player!

You know. Hypothetically.

Nice Borg glam btw. Least I hope it's Borg. We need more Trek-inspired glams.

[Krotoan]

Hey dude. I just want players to not AFK and to do a basic rotation. If that's too hard for someone, there are a TON of single player games out there for them. =)

Or they can play the game their way and you can avoid them if you can't stand it. Every multiplayer game out there is going to have people who are "bad" for whatever reason. Nobody is forcing you to play with them.

Ah, so focusing ON CONTENT THAT YOU QUEUED FOR requires Adderall, huh? I'm sorry to hear you have such a debilitating addiction to narcotics! If you'd like, I can give you a few rehab resources to get you back on track. =)

You missed the point entirely and are quite obviously a huge troll. 1 post from being ignored forever, though I think that's probably being too generous for my own good.

Ah, but you see, when someone advocates for lazy, inconsiderate, selfish play, they open themselves up for criticism! I mean, if you were to... Say... Go afk for half the instance in all the recorded content I've got access to view, you know, HYPOTHETICALLY, I'd need to question your motives. Are you advocating for, to be blunt, TOXIC, selfish play because you think that's how it should be, or are you REALLY doing it because to not do so would mean that... GASP, you're a toxic player!

You know. Hypothetically.

Nice Borg glam btw. Least I hope it's Borg. We need more Trek-inspired glams.

I'm advocating for tolerant play and indifference to the absolutely random mishmash of players you will get in DF. You want optimal, go make optimal. DF is for getting caps and XP done. I really don't know what this "half afk" stuff you're talking about is, some parse log somewhere that would get you banned if you outright named it I guess? It's very possible that's out there somewhere for a run I did at somepoint and I was called away or literally did not understand the fight. Go ahead and post it, i don't care. My life isn't validated by numbers in a game. Apparently it's super important to you though so if it makes you feel better, enjoy. I don't measure my worth by how I do in a video game.



the "Borg" glam is the "sable death mask". Gotten from completing one of the final "bloodsworn" combination quests. I think it looks neat.. yknow.. like you would for a glam.

[Luna-M]

yawnnn, insert here we go again gif

[NanaWiloh]

[Angelov-Mercy]

Is it just me or the players here are kinda sensitive and also not that good? Been playing the game since last fall and what I am noticing is that the players playing the game are not that good and they get easily butthurt when being criticized? Are all of these people just new to the genre or something? I've played many mmorpg games in my life and this one got me scratching my head sometime.

I think it could be a clash of those used to being so used to hammering out criticism as a passive ability meeting with those who have not been as accustom to such casually-cold company yet. But even saying that, there are people who are as thick skinned as a wet tissue, and not able to handle any form of negativity spoken to them let alone get a bloody nose from someone with an inflated self image. This is why I stress patience for others so much, not because I'm trying to be a "mom" but because peoples words and decisions affect the world around them, "you reap what you sow" ...and that also goes for discord among others, not just those who brood on failure or hurt feelings.

"Leave no one behind" and "get up and try again" should be two phrases people take with them everywhere in life in general.