Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[Violet_Galaxy]

Is it just me or the players here are kinda sensitive and also not that good? Been playing the game since last fall and what I am noticing is that the players playing the game are not that good and they get easily butthurt when being criticized? Are all of these people just new to the genre or something? I've played many mmorpg games in my life and this one got me scratching my head sometime.

Is there really that much talking in the instances you're running? There's not really a lot of time to type when things are cruising right along? I respond like this because I see thoughts like this and I just think about the duties I run and how little down time there is in it. Bad luck on your part maybe?

[Krotoan]

Is it just me or the players here are kinda sensitive and also not that good? Been playing the game since last fall and what I am noticing is that the players playing the game are not that good and they get easily butthurt when being criticized? Are all of these people just new to the genre or something? I've played many mmorpg games in my life and this one got me scratching my head sometime.

.. All of them?
No.

Some of them? .. also no.

People are "sensitive" everywhere. FFXIV's player culture does tend to protect people's "right" to play how they want though, so people are more willing to say something when you ask them to play like you want.

In my experience people who use the term "Butthurt" are generally not very empathetic so maybe you're just used to people accepting abuse quietly?

[Kes13a]

This brings up another good point: Many in this community will defend the game from any criticism, regardless of how valid or invalid that criticism is. How can a game and its community grow if misguided players jump down the throats of anyone who dares speak an ill word? It's probably up there in the top 10 major issues the game and its community has.

you say that you have played many mmo's, yet you say this, which is surprising. maybe you have not visited other game forums

this is something that happens in every mmo forum I have been on. this is not unique to FF XIV, and has been going on for literally... ages. so before you start tossing around how bad people are or how unaware they are, you may wish to take a long look in the mirror.. and as you say... get out more.

[Darsien]

you say that you have played many mmo's, yet you say this, which is surprising. maybe you have not visited other game forums

this is something that happens in every mmo forum I have been on. this is not unique to FF XIV, and has been going on for literally... ages. so before you start tossing around how bad people are or how unaware they are, you may wish to take a long look in the mirror.. and as you say... get out more.

Implying that I think that that specific thing is unique to FF. It just happens to be another part of the problem.

Speaking of "tossing around how bad people are," I think reading comprehension is something the general community is lacking. From my current sample size of specifically you, I think I might be on to something. Or you're just trying to put words in my mouth. Either way, embarrassing for you, huh?

Almost as if the pot is about to meet the kettle. When you have a better argument than "other things have this problem to," give me a call. Or you can at least not try to Strawman me. It's kinda boring.

[Destin_Valiant]

All--

This is not a troll thread. I genuinely wants to know what people think and it seems like it is a mix. From my experience there has been a lot of push back when I am asking certain player to do something during instance run. For example the other day when I'm healing this tank and noticed he did not use any mitigation skills at all during the run and even when he is doing big pull. I asked if he can pop some to make my life a little easier and he started giving me attitude. Telling me to stick to healing and stuff. These kind of situation has happened quite often too during my time playing the game and I would be shaking my head till the end. It is like they just don't to hear it and here I am doing everything to better my game every day and I'm seeing these kind of people not giving a damn at all about getting better. It pisses me off but it's what it is and I guess I'm just going to have to suck it up.

[StriderShinryu]

I've had good and bad runs but haven't really noticed a trend towards the bad at all. If anything, it's more trending towards the good, smooth runs. Most people seem to know what they're doing well enough to get through the content without any real struggle, and most times I've given or seen others give legitimate, maturely delivered advice it's been received well. Sure my experience is not necessarily the same as yours, but if you're constantly running into what feels like terrible players and a lack of interest in taking advice, maybe it's your own expectations for what a terrible player is or what constructive advice is that needs adjustment.

[Krotoan]

All--

This is not a troll thread. I genuinely wants to know what people think and it seems like it is a mix. From my experience there has been a lot of push back when I am asking certain player to do something during instance run. For example the other day when I'm healing this tank and noticed he did not use any mitigation skills at all during the run and even when he is doing big pull. I asked if he can pop some to make my life a little easier and he started giving me attitude. Telling me to stick to healing and stuff. These kind of situation has happened quite often too during my time playing the game and I would be shaking my head till the end. It is like they just don't to hear it and here I am doing everything to better my game every day and I'm seeing these kind of people not giving a damn at all about getting better. It pisses me off but it's what it is and I guess I'm just going to have to suck it up.

Your example makes the experience "better" for you. Maybe they don't care? Honestly barring cutting edge and "ultimate" runs... you can get through all the content decently quick enough without being extra efficient.

Also some food for thought: How many runs go by where everything goes smoothly that you don't notice? Try to pay attention to those and see if it doesn't seem to balance out better.

[Zarkovitch]

FF14 playerbase could be special sometimes.

[Darsien]

Your example makes the experience "better" for you. Maybe they don't care? Honestly barring cutting edge and "ultimate" runs... you can get through all the content decently quick enough without being extra efficient.

Also some food for thought: How many runs go by where everything goes smoothly that you don't notice? Try to pay attention to those and see if it doesn't seem to balance out better.

I already know the answer, but I'll still ask my question because you're the sort of person I've been referencing. What joy!

So, question is this: What is the downside for a player to improve so that that "decently quick enough" becomes "quick enough because did my part?"

As a follow up, let me give a hypothetical. Bolding for visibility since this is the main part of the post, really and I can't figure out how to do a line break on a forum layout that hasn't been updated since 2012.

Say we have... Oh, I don't know. A Dragoon player. They go into Ramuh normal. They do literally nothing for 40% of the time (Ramuh normal is a 100% uptime fight, by the way). They keep Chaos Thrust, a natural part of the rotation that has 100% uptime by default... Oh, I dunno. Let's give a random number of... 29.07%. In spite going down the path with Disembowel to have that percentage of uptime, they still have... Oh, let's say 38.33% Disembowel uptime somehow. They also failed to use their CDs, save for high jump.... 40-80% of the time. Finally, out of Nastrond uses, this random, totally hypothetical Dragoon only used it 8 times, out of 18 possible uses. This super mega hypothetical Dragoon did NOT die. Please keep that in mind.

Would you say this Dragoon, who LITERALLY DID NOTHING FOR HALF THE FIGHT, carried their weight? Did their part? Helped that... Oof, that was a long HYPOTHETICAL Ramuh normal... But helped it go "quickly enough?" Please, give me your insights. =)

To address the second half of your post: 70% of the end game dungeon runs I've been in have had 1 or more of the following qualities: Single Pull tank, Zero DPS healer, non-AoE DPS, any of the 3 that clearly didn't know what they were doing. By the latter most, I'm not talking about "missed a CD here, missed a positional there." No, I'm talking on the scale of Black Mages using Transpose end game. Like, as part of their rotation. I had 2 of those in a row. They were indeed different Black Mages. Their AoE rotation was to spam freeze. The healers did more then them.

If any of those things are present, the dungeon run isn't going smoothly. 70% is a pretty large chunk, eh? Gets worse if you look at leveling 71-80. Oh boy. I leveled an Alt and a different job and I can say that I've seen some things.

[Ayuhra]

I think part of the issue is FFXIV has hands down way more research necessary to perform at base level than most other games.

Yes, for WoW and ESO you will probably need an online guide for rotation, build and maybe recommendations on addons.

FFXIV needs rotation guides but also guides for things like how to know when you are actually in AoE, how to set up a hotbar or crossbar, how to make an efficient UI. Controller users need guides for basic things like targeting.

The result is a game with a skill ceiling that may not be much higher than most other games but whose skill floor is MUCH higher... meaning having to exert a weird amount of effort to do something that should be simple or intuitive.

That means your capable playerbase is more narrow.