Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[DPZ2]

My main issue with FF14's player base is how bad most people are at the game. The average level is just too low. It's like people don't read their toolkits. Some might say the game does a bad job at explaining the toolkit or teaching you how to use it, and not gonna lie, I agree with that to some extent. After all, when I started the game, I just couldn't understand what BRD's Barrage's effect was. I read the description more than once, but I just couldn't understand it for some reason. This is where guides come into play.

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

There are guides that list the skills, and their tooltips, out there. Most of them were written back in pre-Heavensward days. Things have changed. Greatly.

I have yet to come across an MMO where there is an active attempt to teach you "how to use" your skillset. Trial and error is the norm for this game (and for many non-MMOs as well, when you think about it).

Most players aren't bad at the game. The game they are playing does not require them to play at end-game skill levels, nor would they remain playing the game if it did.

Some solutions:

• use /yell in major cities offering to help new players learn their class/job
  
• run a twitch channel instructing players on how to perform their class/job well enough to run extreme trials
  
• Put up YouTube tutorials for the class/job you are playing, using an avatar that is geared and leveled appropriately for the player level you're trying to win over
  
• Write up a 'leveling guide' that meets your expectations of what a level 52 NIN should know in Heavensward.

[Veis_Alveare]

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

Yes they are.

Reading a guide about a job at cap is fine to do before you level it. I've done it for everything after my first job. It's advantageous not only to know what you're doing but also to plan your hotbars accordingly.

I think only BLM has a convoluted enough leveling experience that an 80 guide won't help you much from the start and even then it'd certainly be a huge improvement over going in blind.

Ignoring available information is definitely lazy.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Yes they are.

Reading a guide about a job at cap is fine to do before you level it. I've done it for everything after my first job. It's advantageous not only to know what you're doing but also to plan your hotbars accordingly.

I think only BLM has a convoluted enough leveling experience that an 80 guide won't help you much from the start and even then it'd certainly be a huge improvement over going in blind.

Ignoring available information is definitely lazy.

There's even a guide (or at least used to be) on the Balance Discord of the BLM rotation in lvl tiers.

Plus it's only a matter of going there and asking "Ok guys, what do I do as (X job) as I level it up?", if none of the guides say what to do. And for most jobs, people are fine with just following the max level rotation but only using whatever skills they have available at the moment.

[Darkplanet]

ff14 tries to build content for both hardcore players and casual players. In my opinion it does pretty well at it. But naturally there is going to be interactions between those large groups. The causals call the hardcores toxic and the hardcore's call the casuals sensitive bad gamers.

You could literally posted this exact same title and the OP could have been talking about how some person was insulting them while playing and that's the reason ff14 community is bad.

but if you want my opinion, whenever someone says someone got "easily butthurt" you were probably pretty rude whether you believe it or not. Just understand everyone is different and plays different and enjoys the game differently blah blah basic human respect.


and also yes actually, there is currently a very large influx of new players

[Aurelius2625]

There are plenty of guides that go through the 1 to 80 experience, there's a dude who makes youtube guides on all of the jobs fresh to max level. You are LAZY if you don't apply yourself.

An endgame guide for a job teaches you everything you need to know about how the job functions. You just keep revisiting it when you get something new and need to know how it works.

L A Z Y

[GenericMagus]

This is just people in general, all communities are like this when it gets large enough, means more moving parts to the clock so to speak, so more friction and things to go wrong increases.

Only thing to be is behaved, courteous and respectful of different players. If someone is bad, don't shout down to them and if someone is toxic, say so and report and move on. You probably never have to see them again 20 mins after, which probably helps foster this "toxic" community as can just throw away people you don't like and choose to never interact with again, or even extremely unlikely to see them/recognise them.

[Coletergeist]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

Most of the playerbase aren't disabled people, so please kindly stop using that excuse. Game wasn't created with disabled people specifically in mind either.

If everyone "chilled" you wouldn't clear even a normal dungeon. You can see that by all the threads of people failling solo duties before very easy mode was introduced (they didn't have better players to bail them out, which is what "chilling" requires: leeching off of others) or when someone gets a party of bots (which are usually programmed to do the bare minimum and even fail at that. Then you get 1+ hour dungeon runs).

[Coletergeist]

Most of the playerbase aren't disabled people, so please kindly stop using that excuse. Game wasn't created with disabled people specifically in mind either.

If everyone "chilled" you wouldn't clear even a normal dungeon. You can see that by all the threads of people failling solo duties before very easy mode was introduced (they didn't have better players to bail them out, which is what "chilling" requires: leeching off of others) or when someone gets a party of bots (which are usually programmed to do the bare minimum and even fail at that. Then you get 1+ hour dungeon runs).

I mean, I was simply pointing out that those people exist; I have come across quite a handful. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, nor anyone else saying similar things you're saying.
I do come across many players (a bigger handful, obviously) of players that do leech and do nothing period, or get sensitive when it comes to taking friendly advice.

Didn't mean anything ill with what I said. I'm mainly trying to point this out to folks that don't even keep this in mind at all, or as a friendly reminder that they DO exist is all. You'll never know what is going on with the player on the other side of the screen.

Low level dungeons and what not are so braindead, that it hardly matters. That doesn't excuse the players that can learn more though, clearly.

[Eien713]

Didn't mean anything ill with what I said.

But also:

get over yourselves.

Anyway:

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

I call 'em as I see 'em. What to think of a tank who doesn't use mitigation at level 80? Or a BRD who doesn't use songs? Or someone who uses aoe rotation on a single target? Being decent at the game doesn't mean being an orange percentile. It means at least knowing the basics of the class you play and be able to pull your weight.

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

I don't understand your logic. Playing the class doesn't change drastically whether you're doing end-game or not. The class plays almost exactly the same. Leveling guides aren't necessary since if you read any guide that explains how the class and its skills work, you'll be able to get a general idea of how to play it at almost any level. All you have to do is tweak small things here and there. Oh, and just so we're clear, the bad players I'm talking about are mostly players who are level 80 and doing end-game stuff. I personally rarely do low-level stuff anymore.

Edit: Besides, I consider the average level low not just because people don't know how to play the classes but also because they don't make an effort to learn mechanics or pay attention to their surroundings. People get hit by the exact same mechanic over and over and over. A lot of people might say "but, but first timers." Sorry, but being a first timer doesn't give you a free ticket to mess up easy mechanics, especially ones that keep coming back over and over in different duties, or keep messing up after seeing the mechanic multiple times. Sometimes, it feels like some people turn off their brains when they play the game.