Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

Most of the playerbase aren't disabled people, so please kindly stop using that excuse. Game wasn't created with disabled people specifically in mind either.

If everyone "chilled" you wouldn't clear even a normal dungeon. You can see that by all the threads of people failling solo duties before very easy mode was introduced (they didn't have better players to bail them out, which is what "chilling" requires: leeching off of others) or when someone gets a party of bots (which are usually programmed to do the bare minimum and even fail at that. Then you get 1+ hour dungeon runs).

[Coletergeist]

Most of the playerbase aren't disabled people, so please kindly stop using that excuse. Game wasn't created with disabled people specifically in mind either.

If everyone "chilled" you wouldn't clear even a normal dungeon. You can see that by all the threads of people failling solo duties before very easy mode was introduced (they didn't have better players to bail them out, which is what "chilling" requires: leeching off of others) or when someone gets a party of bots (which are usually programmed to do the bare minimum and even fail at that. Then you get 1+ hour dungeon runs).

I mean, I was simply pointing out that those people exist; I have come across quite a handful. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, nor anyone else saying similar things you're saying.
I do come across many players (a bigger handful, obviously) of players that do leech and do nothing period, or get sensitive when it comes to taking friendly advice.

Didn't mean anything ill with what I said. I'm mainly trying to point this out to folks that don't even keep this in mind at all, or as a friendly reminder that they DO exist is all. You'll never know what is going on with the player on the other side of the screen.

Low level dungeons and what not are so braindead, that it hardly matters. That doesn't excuse the players that can learn more though, clearly.

[Eien713]

Didn't mean anything ill with what I said.

But also:

get over yourselves.

Anyway:

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

I call 'em as I see 'em. What to think of a tank who doesn't use mitigation at level 80? Or a BRD who doesn't use songs? Or someone who uses aoe rotation on a single target? Being decent at the game doesn't mean being an orange percentile. It means at least knowing the basics of the class you play and be able to pull your weight.

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

I don't understand your logic. Playing the class doesn't change drastically whether you're doing end-game or not. The class plays almost exactly the same. Leveling guides aren't necessary since if you read any guide that explains how the class and its skills work, you'll be able to get a general idea of how to play it at almost any level. All you have to do is tweak small things here and there. Oh, and just so we're clear, the bad players I'm talking about are mostly players who are level 80 and doing end-game stuff. I personally rarely do low-level stuff anymore.

Edit: Besides, I consider the average level low not just because people don't know how to play the classes but also because they don't make an effort to learn mechanics or pay attention to their surroundings. People get hit by the exact same mechanic over and over and over. A lot of people might say "but, but first timers." Sorry, but being a first timer doesn't give you a free ticket to mess up easy mechanics, especially ones that keep coming back over and over in different duties, or keep messing up after seeing the mechanic multiple times. Sometimes, it feels like some people turn off their brains when they play the game.

[Veis_Alveare]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

If there weren't people who cared about their performance and trying to improve a lot of the lazy/bad/whatever excuse you want to make up players would still be trying to get through the Shinryu story battle.

There may be two main sides to this coin but only one side needs the other to carry them through content.

[Aeducan]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

I understand where you're coming from and I think your heart is in the right place, but you need to temper your optimism with a dose of reality. Many have stated that we're not looking for 95% percentile plays, just be decent and pull your own weight. For some reason asking for personal accountability is a big no-no here; yet asking to get carried is prim and proper. If everyone "chilled" like you said, many people would've stuck at Royal Menagerie, thinking why Shinryu is immortal.

[Nixxe]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.

Dungeons are one thing, but even normal raids are still difficult enough that if you get a bunch of people who don't really know how to play, you're gonna have a bad time. It's not really fair to the other seven people in a group to be a burden and make them carry you because you can't be bothered to do something as simple as spend a few minutes reading a guide on the Balance to make sure you have a good idea of when to hit your buttons.

[Penthea]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

If a person has a disability that can very much affect how well they perform they should try to group up with people they know if possible. Not just because people you know would be more likely to be supportive if you're having difficulty, but also because pugs have no way of knowing if you're disabled unless you tell them. Even if you do, explaining a disability can be lengthy and some people would assume it's a lie designed to get away with certain things...which of course can lead to drama.

I'm disabled but I certainly wouldn't ever reveal this to a pug group. I don't really want to be in the position in which people would be doubting the validity of my claim. It's too much of a headache. I don't join pugs to debate about medical issues, and pugs don't pug to carry the heavy burdens of someone else, disabled or otherwise.

Just like anyone else disabled people are responsible for what they put other people through. If you're having a really really bad day with your disability and expect pugs to just carry you...that's not cool. If I'm having a really bad day I play with people I know, stick to content where I wouldn't have difficulty, or entirely avoid playing. Adjusting what you play and with who, is taking responsibility for your impact on other people.

Everyone needs to be realistic about what they can achieve as a player. Whether you're new, rusty, not particularly skilled, or disabled. Unfortunately not everyone has the potential to be an all-star raider because life is not fair. We're not all dealt the same hand. But what also isn't fair is expecting people to carry you just because you are unable to or are too lazy to improve. Adjust your expectations whether that means realising you have much to learn, or that life dealt you a hand that makes you peak earlier than some others.

If you are below the requirements to do certain content but still badly want to do it, find a group that is okay with dealing with your particular skillset. Not only does this mean you won't be putting pugs in an unpleasant position, you will most likely find that you have a far higher success rate of completing content. You won't be getting kicked so you would get the opportunity to learn to deal with your limitations better, or even find ways to overcome them.

That being said a lot of players need to adjust their expectations of other people. I can't even begin to count the amount of times I have seen people in the forums complain about players in normal mode DF that wouldn't parse at least very high green. They rarely explicitly say it but when you see the things they complain about players not doing, pretty often they're asking for far above the requirement of the content. Personally I adjust my judgement of other players based on the content we're doing. I'm very forgiving in normal mode, but in ex or savage my expectations rise very significantly, because that content requires far more from players than normal mode.

Yes I know genuinely awful players exist, even those awful by normal mode standards...but that is a problem with literally every multiplayer game. Great, bad and everything in-between exist in every gaming community. No matter how many tutorials are in games, how many great guides there are, there will always be people who fall between the cracks that make you wonder how they got as far as they did. It sucks but this will never change. It's just how people are.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk :P

[Jirah]

I cant stand these topics. why do people expect every community to be universally positive and of one mind? Crappy people exist in every medium in the world wasting your time generalizing it as "ffxiv unique player issue" is all sorts of stupid. get over it

[Lium]

Just to clarify after reading a few posts here, there is a difference between passive aggressive and sarcasm. Sarcasm is telling someone who is doing crappy DPS "Amazing DPS!" Passive aggressive is telling a a group with a crappy healer "Not sure what happened there. I've never died on that during the eight years I've been playing. Weird. Guess we'll just have to take it slow."