Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

[Lium]

Yeah, I really don't get why people think the WoW community is ultra toxic while praising this one. The only thing I can figure is that toxicity in this game is often very passive aggressive, while in WoW it's just ordinary aggressive aggressive. Both games in my experience have always been filled with the standard array of MMO players, and FFXIV is noticeably more WoW-like these days than it was back in ARR.

WoW is way more toxic because it has a large PvP component, and Blizzard games have always fostered an environment of competition. Even in PvE. And that's not just WoW, by the way. I have found any game that has a PvP focus or a large PvP community tends to be terrible. While games that focus mostly on PvE tend to be nicer.

LOTRO, for example, was known as having one of the best communities in MMOs before FFXIV came out. Maybe it still does but I haven't played that game since like, 2007 or so.

[KaijinRhada]

After reading through the thread, I'll share my experience with the community in this aspect.

Regardless of how well-intended and polite you come across some will take advice well, and invariably some don't. Unless something is going awry and there are barriers for clearing content, the most I will say in an instance on average is "o/" or some form of greeting, and some form of "thanks for the group" when all is said and done. I try to sound as encouraging, positive, and polite as possible when giving advice, and overall, it's generally alright.

As far as effort goes, when I'm in group content I try my best to not be a burden on the group, and will play to the utmost of my abilities and efforts, because I value both my personal performance (however well that goes on a given day) and being a team player first. I try to respect the time that my party members are investing, and I hope to receive that same respect for my time (my bar for others is doing bare minimum). Do I expect it, however? No, while it's nice when people go above and beyond, I'm not going to expect people to play in any particular way. What I can do is perform as well as I can, try to be patient with others, and to keep an open mind. I will draw the line at obvious and intentional trolling though.

If people put in a good effort, that's the best I can hope for.

[Eien713]

My main issue with FF14's player base is how bad most people are at the game. The average level is just too low. It's like people don't read their toolkits. Some might say the game does a bad job at explaining the toolkit or teaching you how to use it, and not gonna lie, I agree with that to some extent. After all, when I started the game, I just couldn't understand what BRD's Barrage's effect was. I read the description more than once, but I just couldn't understand it for some reason. This is where guides come into play. It doesn't take much time to read a guide about the class you're planning to main, and this will do wonders to how you play it. Most of FF14's players are just too casual and/or lazy to do this. And what's worse is that they usually don't accept advice on how to get better. The usual response is either silence or something along the lines of "you don't pay my sub." It's just unacceptable to have a tank at level 80 who hasn't even heard of mitigation, a BRD who doesn't use songs, etc.

[DPZ2]

My main issue with FF14's player base is how bad most people are at the game. The average level is just too low. It's like people don't read their toolkits. Some might say the game does a bad job at explaining the toolkit or teaching you how to use it, and not gonna lie, I agree with that to some extent. After all, when I started the game, I just couldn't understand what BRD's Barrage's effect was. I read the description more than once, but I just couldn't understand it for some reason. This is where guides come into play.

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

There are guides that list the skills, and their tooltips, out there. Most of them were written back in pre-Heavensward days. Things have changed. Greatly.

I have yet to come across an MMO where there is an active attempt to teach you "how to use" your skillset. Trial and error is the norm for this game (and for many non-MMOs as well, when you think about it).

Most players aren't bad at the game. The game they are playing does not require them to play at end-game skill levels, nor would they remain playing the game if it did.

Some solutions:

• use /yell in major cities offering to help new players learn their class/job
  
• run a twitch channel instructing players on how to perform their class/job well enough to run extreme trials
  
• Put up YouTube tutorials for the class/job you are playing, using an avatar that is geared and leveled appropriately for the player level you're trying to win over
  
• Write up a 'leveling guide' that meets your expectations of what a level 52 NIN should know in Heavensward.

[Veis_Alveare]

Almost all online guides are only useful for end-game players, since they're written by and for end-game players.

People aren't lazy for not reading guides for the simple reason that there are no useful leveling guides.

Yes they are.

Reading a guide about a job at cap is fine to do before you level it. I've done it for everything after my first job. It's advantageous not only to know what you're doing but also to plan your hotbars accordingly.

I think only BLM has a convoluted enough leveling experience that an 80 guide won't help you much from the start and even then it'd certainly be a huge improvement over going in blind.

Ignoring available information is definitely lazy.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Yes they are.

Reading a guide about a job at cap is fine to do before you level it. I've done it for everything after my first job. It's advantageous not only to know what you're doing but also to plan your hotbars accordingly.

I think only BLM has a convoluted enough leveling experience that an 80 guide won't help you much from the start and even then it'd certainly be a huge improvement over going in blind.

Ignoring available information is definitely lazy.

There's even a guide (or at least used to be) on the Balance Discord of the BLM rotation in lvl tiers.

Plus it's only a matter of going there and asking "Ok guys, what do I do as (X job) as I level it up?", if none of the guides say what to do. And for most jobs, people are fine with just following the max level rotation but only using whatever skills they have available at the moment.

[Darkplanet]

ff14 tries to build content for both hardcore players and casual players. In my opinion it does pretty well at it. But naturally there is going to be interactions between those large groups. The causals call the hardcores toxic and the hardcore's call the casuals sensitive bad gamers.

You could literally posted this exact same title and the OP could have been talking about how some person was insulting them while playing and that's the reason ff14 community is bad.

but if you want my opinion, whenever someone says someone got "easily butthurt" you were probably pretty rude whether you believe it or not. Just understand everyone is different and plays different and enjoys the game differently blah blah basic human respect.


and also yes actually, there is currently a very large influx of new players

[Aurelius2625]

There are plenty of guides that go through the 1 to 80 experience, there's a dude who makes youtube guides on all of the jobs fresh to max level. You are LAZY if you don't apply yourself.

An endgame guide for a job teaches you everything you need to know about how the job functions. You just keep revisiting it when you get something new and need to know how it works.

L A Z Y

[GenericMagus]

This is just people in general, all communities are like this when it gets large enough, means more moving parts to the clock so to speak, so more friction and things to go wrong increases.

Only thing to be is behaved, courteous and respectful of different players. If someone is bad, don't shout down to them and if someone is toxic, say so and report and move on. You probably never have to see them again 20 mins after, which probably helps foster this "toxic" community as can just throw away people you don't like and choose to never interact with again, or even extremely unlikely to see them/recognise them.

[Coletergeist]

Hey all, let's try to remember there's folks with disabilities and what not that make it hard for them to "git gud".

Calling people lazy is well, sort of rude tbh. This game was not created with you specifically in mind, get over yourselves.

I get that doing savage and EX you should be familiar and what not with your jobs, but for normal dungeons and raids, you need to chill.