Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Eremor]

I don't think Red Mage (or Fencer) should get water nukes. Red Mage's primary damage should be from their sword and I think Water spells should be saved for a job that doesn't have another means of doing damage (like Arcanist).

Besides, just look at the spells Red Mage would have access to through CNJ and THM:

Stone
Aero
Cure
Protect
Stoneskin
Raise
Thunder
Fire
Fira

That looks like a pretty good Red Mage spell list to me.

Instead, Red Mage should get an ability to enhance those spells to make them more viable.

[Eremor]

Also, while this thread is semi-revived, I had a question about WS -> Spell combos.

Everyone seems to like the idea of Red Mage having WS -> Spell combos (I do too), but I was wondering, should those combos be required, alternate, or optional?

Here's what I mean:

Required:

Example: WS1 -> Spell -> WS2

This format is the simplest to implement and understand. It works the same as any other three step combo. The spell cast is required to continue the combo into WS2. This causes MP to be a limiting factor, meaning you will be unable to perform any combos if you are out of MP. It also has the secondary effect of potentially unnesseccarily building the target's resistance a particular enfeeble if one combo is strongly favored for DPS purposes (and therefore used as often as possible). However this method does allow for optimal DPS output.

Alternate:

Example: WS1 -> Spell
OR: WS1 -> WS2

This method eliminates the MP requirements of the previous example by dividing the combo into seperate two step combos. This allows you more freedom in choosing when you want to cast debuffs or simply deal damage. However it causes a drop in DPS since you would be required to choose between using your TP to open a spell combo or a damage combo.

Optional:

Example: WS1 -> Spell -> WS2
OR: WS1 -> WS2

This format eliminates all drawbacks in the system and allows you to freely choose when to cast your spells without sacrificing damage potential. This seems like the obvious solution except for the fact that it is not currently supported by the combo system so changes would have to be made, and maybe you might want to have one of the limitations described above, you know, for the sake of balance (lolbalance).

[Duelle]

Could also go the reverse, which would very much make sense in the context of magic melee. Say, open with Gravity, which then combos into Hexa-thrust (which would otherwise have accuracy penalties) which combos into Triple Crimson Pin (ditto on the acc thing for this one).

That way you have

WS => medium strength WS => spell finisher

as well as

spell => strong WS => strongest WS

[Eremor]

True, though the spell open combo would probably lead into a weaker WS rather then a strong one since it would let you open a combo instantly with 0 TP. Especially since most RDM spells would be fairly low MP cost enfeebles, but still an interesting possibility.

Also I was going on the assumption that the spell combo bonus would simply allow you to instant cast the spell (seemed appropriate for RDM), but I have also been considering other combo effects.

[SwordCoheir]

Prolly be better to keep the casting time unless the spell is deliberately short ranged like a WS simply because you can create distance between you and your opponent for the spell finisher, or start the combo from afar depending on which method is used, which would already give RDM some dynamic advantages over melee jobs.

[Molly_Millions]

Prolly be better to keep the casting time unless the spell is deliberately short ranged like a WS simply because you can create distance between you and your opponent for the spell finisher, or start the combo from afar depending on which method is used, which would already give RDM some dynamic advantages over melee jobs.

RDM could have flood, which could work like Flare, a self targeting AOE. Some water based enhancing skill, either a WS or spell to open a combo ending in Flood would be the bomb-diggity.

[Duelle]

Prolly be better to keep the casting time unless the spell is deliberately short ranged like a WS simply because you can create distance between you and your opponent for the spell finisher, or start the combo from afar depending on which method is used, which would already give RDM some dynamic advantages over melee jobs.

Short casting time (instant/.5 seconds/1 second) and short range would definitely make more sense for RDM.

[Duelle]

It'd be interesting to see RDM be the only job that can get aroundn the combo system's limitations, but I think that might be pushing things a little too far.

[Eremor]

RDM probably wouldn't be the only job with a unique combo system, just one of the first, and it certainly makes sense for an iconic melee mage to have combos that include both spells and weaponskills. Besides, isn't that what everyone is pushing for, to make every job unique in some way?

[AsterBarnivere]

RDM/NIN = Badass...