Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Jinko]

For a melee to use WS > WS > Spell requires a lot of standing in one place.

Unless you make it WS > Spell (combo effect is no cast time)

I do like the idea of mixing TP skills and Mana skills together though.

[Maxthunder]

ok cool red mage mid combat as a class, advan job red wizard back line job. Now start refreshing!!!!

[Iacon]

I must be one of the few people who DO NOT want to see RDM gain Mystic Knight's Spellblade abilities. That is the one job that has been shafted after FFV and I would love to see it come back to its original glory. Whatever they plan to do with RDM is fine, but please, do not give them Spellblade spells.

[Kiote]

For a melee to use WS > WS > Spell requires a lot of standing in one place.

Unless you make it WS > Spell (combo effect is no cast time)

HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

Combo Effect: Removes Casting time.

I think they should make the spells in combos more generic too. So instead of dooing WS > WS > Paralyze you can do WS > WS > Any Enfeeble.

[Suneater]

You want to melee as RDM but how are the devs supposed to balance this? If RDM wears cloth armor, they die in 2 hits. If RDM wears leather armor, they have no mage stats or are forced into JSE/AF only. What kind of WS are they supposed to get? If their WS do more than PLD, then PLD will complain about how they have less hate management tools than RDM (getting out-cured and out WSed by a mage). At least then the forums will have something new to complain about I guess.

Jack-of-all-trades classes don't work in MMOs because they are second-rate at everything that they do and are shoehorned into only using their unique skills. I'd rather see a pure enfeebling magic/dark magic mage than XI's red mages again.

[Wycor]

Jack-of-all-trades classes don't work in MMOs because they are second-rate at everything that they do and are shoehorned into only using their unique skills. I'd rather see a pure enfeebling magic/dark magic mage than XI's red mages again.

Wait. No, wait. Wait wait wait.

Are you complaining why a job would be a "second rate at everything" and only count on their unique skills? Are you actually playing? Seriously? Can you tell me the difference between what you said and: Bard, warrior, monk, whitemage, black mage dragoon and paladin? Aren't those jobs used only becasuse of it's "unique skills" while they are mediocre?

Seriously what the...

[Suneater]

Wait. No, wait. Wait wait wait.

Are you complaining why a job would be a "second rate at everything" and only count on their unique skills? Are you actually playing? Seriously? Can you tell me the difference between what you said and: Bard, warrior, monk, whitemage, black mage dragoon and paladin? Aren't those jobs used only becasuse of it's "unique skills" while they are mediocre?

Seriously what the...

Bard, Warrior, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Dragoon, and Paladin are jack-of-all-trades and classes now? Are YOU actually playing?

[Elgeron]

RDM was anything but inefficient in FFXI. But furthermore, RDM is a third part these things, because that's what Red Mage is. Final Fantasy has an established job system, Red Mage has never varied wildly from its roots in this regard. FFXI was perhaps the biggest departure for the job.

Not to say that innovation is bad, but people expect something specific from a Red Mage, their love and attachment to the job is based around these expectations. Hence this thread, and half the people posting in it.

But last time SE tried to wildly depart from the expected job system... well look what happened.

I understand your point, but one of the reason that make the last system fails was because it hasn´t enough specialitation, CON and THM were, infact, like red mages. And a lot of the DoW were pretty similar gameplay wise. Job brought two things, the nostalgia factor and specialitation.

And, please, correct me if I´m wrong, but the original concept of RDM fail in FFXI, forcing players to use it as a healer, wich almost surpass WHM. Besides, you can already play as RDM using classes, and it is an interesting combination, specially for solo or small parties wich want to have fun.

Futhermore, you said that the FFXI´s RDM was "perhaps the biggest departure for the job".Maybe that means that the original concept have problems, and the biggest one was that, at the beggining it was one of the most usefful classes, but in the long run it lost efectivity, and only making changes it really start to function well.

We need more magic jobs and more variety. If RDM isn´t change, is better in my opinion if they implement a totally different and new job.

And believe me, saying this isn´t easy for me. Red mage is probably my favourite job. I started as CON just because it reminds me of RDM reading the description

[SwordCoheir]

Redmade are suppose to be support job not melle not casters not healers ------------------

Support job are job's that cast buff's debuffs and offensive spell when needed or defensive spell when needed*

Hence you do you have to cast cure nukes bind gravity ----- refresh* and of course you are welcome to melle or use a bow --- but remember you'll run out of MP------

To fix that problem you re technically telling se to give you 500 mp per tick just so you can attack ----

I guess you want a Mage that uses no mp and only TP---- that would not make it a mage if you use tp though-

to fix that problem se should allow REDMAGE to be engaged and recover mp at the same rate a whitemage and blackmage recover mp while not active--- but of course to support that------ so th job isnt over powered-

cure should only be cure 1---- and nukes should only be tier 1 nukes as well--- That of course would make a redmage weak though---- if he or she decides to be a redmage nuker still- hence would suck for the players who wants to nuke as rdm and buff debuff.

I very much doubt SE will change the game mechanics to make one or two exceptions just to make one job work Gukie. Frankly I think the MP limitations from being engaged would be one of those things that could keep RDM from being OP, but unless it's magic / support abilities are somewhat tied into their physical offense we'll likely see a repeat of the backline Red Mage just because we'll have a slew of RDM's who can't manage MP effectively.

And before people say "That's what Refresh is for", I've been specifically avoiding the spell in my ideas because it specifically turned against RDM in FFXI. Despite what people think the developers originally intended for Refresh supplement Red Mage's ability to be in the front lines without stopping to heal every battle. Things didn't go as intended, people found the hidden effect of elemental staves, series of other unfortunate events, BAM RDM was cemented in backline position. Of course since only a few jobs actually utilize mp, it might not be so detrimental (especially if it's AoE) so it might not be so bad. But if then again it might enforce BLM stacking with Ballad / Refresh giving insane MP regeneration. So for now I'd much rather avoid "Refresh" outside a self-buff only, trait, or find ways to restore MP through other means like Runic Blade / Aspir.

Futhermore, you said that the FFXI´s RDM was "perhaps the biggest departure for the job".Maybe that means that the original concept have problems, and the biggest one was that, at the beggining it was one of the most usefful classes, but in the long run it lost efectivity, and only making changes it really start to function well.

Actually the original concept had little problems, it was the overall design of the game that made it difficult for RDM to actually play as it's original concept. SE improved on newer hybrid jobs like BLU and DNC by tieing their ability to function as a mage within their melee, however RDM was so pigeonholed into the backline position for so long and to make it comply within it's concept would require the job to be entirely rebuilt a 2nd time and perhaps rebuild the magic system altogether, SE just said it wasn't worth fixing at that point.

[Gukie]

Redmade are suppose to be support job not melle not casters not healers ------------------

Support job are job's that cast buff's debuffs and offensive spell when needed or defensive spell when needed*

Hence you do you have to cast cure nukes bind gravity ----- refresh* and of course you are welcome to melle or use a bow --- but remember you'll run out of MP------

To fix that problem you re technically telling se to give you 500 mp per tick just so you can attack ----

I guess you want a Mage that uses no mp and only TP---- that would not make it a mage if you use tp though-

to fix that problem se should allow REDMAGE to be engaged and recover mp at the same rate a whitemage and blackmage recover mp while not active--- but of course to support that------ so th job isnt over powered-

cure should only be cure 1---- and nukes should only be tier 1 nukes as well--- That of course would make a redmage weak though---- if he or she decides to be a redmage nuker still- hence would suck for the players who wants to nuke as rdm and buff debuff.