Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Jinko]

The question is would en-spells be single target, self cast or AoE ?

I would quite like the idea of AoE buffs myself, what do you guys think ?

[Firon]

The question is would en-spells be single target, self cast or AoE ?

I would quite like the idea of AoE buffs myself, what do you guys think ?

I think That would be cool. I have another idea i just thought of. Ws > Ws > double cast (skill) > cast the finisher spell 2 times(both get the combo bonus).

[Tahldon]

I wonder what they'd make Red Mage's 15Min spell be? I'd love for it to be Re-Raise...

Honestly though, Red Mage would be in an interesting position due to the fact that it's a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal. I pretty much expect them to let Red Mages use White/Black Mage spells, but due to the restrictive number of abilities a class can have, I'm wondering how many weaponskills the class would get.

Having to split the skills of a Red Mage through melee attacks and Magics (Debuffs and buffs) along with self buffs (IE: Dual Cast, Sabotur, etc), I can forsee a lot of things missing from the class. Also, factor in the fact that there can be up to like, five skills brought over from WHM and BLM, that'll be a pretty tight bar with nothing that actually dedicates the class to anything, but I guess that's the point, huh.

OP does make a good point though, although, because of the Red Mage's versatility, they've been doomed with having lower stats and things, so to have a melee in there trying to duke it out along side the melees could prove fatal what with how mages are squishy and all. I expect the Red mage to be as about as tough as a BRD to an extent health-wise.

Still though... I'm kind of boggled on how many skills the class would be able to have... what? 20 Arcanist skills split through Buffs, Debuffs, Melee Weaponskills, and Self Enhancing skills? Then 5 Red Mage skills after that? Plus the 5 cross-class abilities. That's just going to be awkward and, seemingly, all over the place. And not to mention that WHM already has Chainspell... so what then?

Eh... this is kind of making me tired thinking about it. I just want Red Mage to be really good and useful in this game... _-_

[Firon]

I wonder what they'd make Red Mage's 15Min spell be? I'd love for it to be Re-Raise...

Honestly though, Red Mage would be in an interesting position due to the fact that it's a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal. I pretty much expect them to let Red Mages use White/Black Mage spells, but due to the restrictive number of abilities a class can have, I'm wondering how many weaponskills the class would get.

Having to split the skills of a Red Mage through melee attacks and Magics (Debuffs and buffs) along with self buffs (IE: Dual Cast, Sabotur, etc), I can forsee a lot of things missing from the class. Also, factor in the fact that there can be up to like, five skills brought over from WHM and BLM, that'll be a pretty tight bar with nothing that actually dedicates the class to anything, but I guess that's the point, huh.

OP does make a good point though, although, because of the Red Mage's versatility, they've been doomed with having lower stats and things, so to have a melee in there trying to duke it out along side the melees could prove fatal what with how mages are squishy and all. I expect the Red mage to be as about as tough as a BRD to an extent health-wise.

Still though... I'm kind of boggled on how many skills the class would be able to have... what? 20 Arcanist skills split through Buffs, Debuffs, Melee Weaponskills, and Self Enhancing skills? Then 5 Red Mage skills after that? Plus the 5 cross-class abilities. That's just going to be awkward and, seemingly, all over the place. And not to mention that WHM already has Chainspell... so what then?

Eh... this is kind of making me tired thinking about it. I just want Red Mage to be really good and useful in this game... _-_

They could add all the debuffs on WS like i used in the example. Since a RDM uses melee and magic why not just combine them

[Jinko]

I wonder what they'd make Red Mage's 15Min spell be? I'd love for it to be Re-Raise...

Honestly though, Red Mage would be in an interesting position due to the fact that it's a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal. I pretty much expect them to let Red Mages use White/Black Mage spells, but due to the restrictive number of abilities a class can have, I'm wondering how many weaponskills the class would get.

Having to split the skills of a Red Mage through melee attacks and Magics (Debuffs and buffs) along with self buffs (IE: Dual Cast, Sabotur, etc), I can forsee a lot of things missing from the class. Also, factor in the fact that there can be up to like, five skills brought over from WHM and BLM, that'll be a pretty tight bar with nothing that actually dedicates the class to anything, but I guess that's the point, huh.

OP does make a good point though, although, because of the Red Mage's versatility, they've been doomed with having lower stats and things, so to have a melee in there trying to duke it out along side the melees could prove fatal what with how mages are squishy and all. I expect the Red mage to be as about as tough as a BRD to an extent health-wise.

Still though... I'm kind of boggled on how many skills the class would be able to have... what? 20 Arcanist skills split through Buffs, Debuffs, Melee Weaponskills, and Self Enhancing skills? Then 5 Red Mage skills after that? Plus the 5 cross-class abilities. That's just going to be awkward and, seemingly, all over the place. And not to mention that WHM already has Chainspell... so what then?

Eh... this is kind of making me tired thinking about it. I just want Red Mage to be really good and useful in this game... _-_

I would much prefer the red mage had its own unique spells, give it water spells or something.

The main class is most likely going to be fencer if they still plan to use that class.

I don't think we should be saying RDM is BLM/WHM, I would much prefer it to be just a battle mage, so fencer with water spells, enspells, and elemental weaponskills.

Allow it use cross class skills from THM and CNJ.

Sacred Prism + Enfire. <3

16 skills/ws

• Water
• Waterga
• Enfire
• Enwater
• Enthunder
• Enstone
• Enblizzard
• Poison Slash - Umbral based weapons skill + chance to inflict poison
• Burning Blade - Fire based weapon skill + chance to inflict burn
• Quick Slash - Lightning based weapon skill + chance to inflict stun
• Cyclone - Wind based weapon skill + chance to inflict bleed/choke
• Shining Strike - Astral based weapon skill + chance to inflict dia
• Terrastrike - Earth bases weapon skill + chance to inflict rasp
• Shatter - Ice based weapon skill + chance to inflict frost
• Torrent - Water based weapon skill + chance to inflict drown
• 15 min skill ??

[JTSpender]

FWIW, if you took the most recent player's poll, it sounds like they might have a general concept for the RDM. One of the options from the "what new classes do you want" question was "A new type of magic-user that uses enfeebling magic and close-range attacks. (ex. Red Mage, etc.)".

I find it unlikely that from a game mechanic perspective they're going to fit what people imagine as a traditional Final Fantasy RDM "jack-of-all-trades" (as a career RDM or hybrid class player, I hate hate hate that term) which is going to melee and cast both Cure and Fire. It's possible, but... that's how FFXI's RDM ended up where they ended up.

And in general, doing hybrids well in MMOs and having them not either be strictly worse than bringing a dedicated class or totally OP because they can do everything is really hard. Hybrids work well in games with small groups but when you start getting to large-group content stuff kinda goes out the window. You can sort of pull it off by either having state-based hybrids (see Scholar from FFXI or Druid from WoW) or cheat by giving them something absolutely necessary (lolRefresh) or a totally different role in large group play (crowd control is one example).

All that said, like a lot of people I would totally love to see something that looked a lot like Dancer, which used one set of abilities to build up a resource which gets expended with a different kind of ability. Honestly, as long as there is the base flavor of having something that looks like fencer-y melee skills (these may or may not actually be real, TP-using weapon skills) lead into something that looks like magey spells (which may or may not be real, MP using spells) I will be happy. Frankly, even if the only magic they get at all is debuff spells I'm fine with that; I'd much much rather they err on the side of magic-fencer flavor than jack-of-all-trades flavor.

My only other big concern is how they solve the itemization problem so they don't end up being magic fencers in stupid mage robes all the time.

[Jinko]

My only other big concern is how they solve the itemization problem so they don't end up being magic fencers in stupid mage robes all the time.

You could have them wear Bliaud and Gaskins, I think that would suit a RDM more than a full on robe.

Just have the robes unfavourable to RDM/Fencer.

[Tahldon]

You could have them wear Bliaud and Gaskins, I think that would suit a RDM more than a full on robe.

Just have the robes unfavourable to RDM/Fencer.

Yeah, I was thinking along these same lines, myself, in terms of what they would wear. The Devs would have a lot of work on their hands though to implement Favorable RDM clothes too, but they're good at that sort of thing so it's no biggie. Although... I do wonder if the primary stat for them would be the "Enfeebling Magic" one, being as though "Healing Magic Potency" is directed towards CNJ/WHM and "Attack Magic Potency" is catered more towards THM/BLM and all.

Seems only right to me, but JT makes a good point. I'd like the class to be more than it was in reference to what people describe it as in FFXI.

(And in case you all haven't noticed, I didn't get knee deep in FFXI as some of you so that's why my questions are a little... naive?)

[SwordCoheir]

You could have them wear Bliaud and Gaskins, I think that would suit a RDM more than a full on robe.

Just have the robes unfavourable to RDM/Fencer.

Well RDM's do generally have access to all but the heaviest of armors so jerkin, scale, tunic armors would work well too.

If there was going to be a problem with MKT/RDM's main weapon (most likely being Sword types are taken by GLA/PLD) I'd say you could have Epee/Rapier weapons as their own type, and a parrying dagger as an offhand for kind of a dual wield/parry like setup. You could hit like a PLD, but damage would be supplemented by the addition of the dagger to do damage so it would be more speed auto-attack DPS focused than big number WS focused.

Of course my fear is scaling between Sword type weapons vs other DD weapons is growing so it might hurt both jobs badly when the level cap is raised.

But that's just throwing some ideas out there.

[Babydoll]

OP you are right. RDM should have been what BLU was in FFXI. RDM in the other FF's is front line, can wear heavy/medium armors..can dish out good damage and help backup with some spells while BLU usually had light armor and was always back row doing stuff to support the party and it had some good spells like BLM type.

I REALLLLY hope they don't ruin RDM like they did in XI in XIV...