Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Suneater]

You want to melee as RDM but how are the devs supposed to balance this? If RDM wears cloth armor, they die in 2 hits. If RDM wears leather armor, they have no mage stats or are forced into JSE/AF only. What kind of WS are they supposed to get? If their WS do more than PLD, then PLD will complain about how they have less hate management tools than RDM (getting out-cured and out WSed by a mage). At least then the forums will have something new to complain about I guess.

Jack-of-all-trades classes don't work in MMOs because they are second-rate at everything that they do and are shoehorned into only using their unique skills. I'd rather see a pure enfeebling magic/dark magic mage than XI's red mages again.

[Wycor]

Jack-of-all-trades classes don't work in MMOs because they are second-rate at everything that they do and are shoehorned into only using their unique skills. I'd rather see a pure enfeebling magic/dark magic mage than XI's red mages again.

Wait. No, wait. Wait wait wait.

Are you complaining why a job would be a "second rate at everything" and only count on their unique skills? Are you actually playing? Seriously? Can you tell me the difference between what you said and: Bard, warrior, monk, whitemage, black mage dragoon and paladin? Aren't those jobs used only becasuse of it's "unique skills" while they are mediocre?

Seriously what the...

[Suneater]

Wait. No, wait. Wait wait wait.

Are you complaining why a job would be a "second rate at everything" and only count on their unique skills? Are you actually playing? Seriously? Can you tell me the difference between what you said and: Bard, warrior, monk, whitemage, black mage dragoon and paladin? Aren't those jobs used only becasuse of it's "unique skills" while they are mediocre?

Seriously what the...

Bard, Warrior, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Dragoon, and Paladin are jack-of-all-trades and classes now? Are YOU actually playing?

[Elgeron]

RDM was anything but inefficient in FFXI. But furthermore, RDM is a third part these things, because that's what Red Mage is. Final Fantasy has an established job system, Red Mage has never varied wildly from its roots in this regard. FFXI was perhaps the biggest departure for the job.

Not to say that innovation is bad, but people expect something specific from a Red Mage, their love and attachment to the job is based around these expectations. Hence this thread, and half the people posting in it.

But last time SE tried to wildly depart from the expected job system... well look what happened.

I understand your point, but one of the reason that make the last system fails was because it hasn´t enough specialitation, CON and THM were, infact, like red mages. And a lot of the DoW were pretty similar gameplay wise. Job brought two things, the nostalgia factor and specialitation.

And, please, correct me if I´m wrong, but the original concept of RDM fail in FFXI, forcing players to use it as a healer, wich almost surpass WHM. Besides, you can already play as RDM using classes, and it is an interesting combination, specially for solo or small parties wich want to have fun.

Futhermore, you said that the FFXI´s RDM was "perhaps the biggest departure for the job".Maybe that means that the original concept have problems, and the biggest one was that, at the beggining it was one of the most usefful classes, but in the long run it lost efectivity, and only making changes it really start to function well.

We need more magic jobs and more variety. If RDM isn´t change, is better in my opinion if they implement a totally different and new job.

And believe me, saying this isn´t easy for me. Red mage is probably my favourite job. I started as CON just because it reminds me of RDM reading the description

[Gukie]

Redmade are suppose to be support job not melle not casters not healers ------------------

Support job are job's that cast buff's debuffs and offensive spell when needed or defensive spell when needed*

Hence you do you have to cast cure nukes bind gravity ----- refresh* and of course you are welcome to melle or use a bow --- but remember you'll run out of MP------

To fix that problem you re technically telling se to give you 500 mp per tick just so you can attack ----

I guess you want a Mage that uses no mp and only TP---- that would not make it a mage if you use tp though-

to fix that problem se should allow REDMAGE to be engaged and recover mp at the same rate a whitemage and blackmage recover mp while not active--- but of course to support that------ so th job isnt over powered-

cure should only be cure 1---- and nukes should only be tier 1 nukes as well--- That of course would make a redmage weak though---- if he or she decides to be a redmage nuker still- hence would suck for the players who wants to nuke as rdm and buff debuff.

[Gukie]

[QUOTE=Jinko;645295]It would never be able to outright replace the main tank, main healer, or primary DPS, but it would be able to replace an off tank or off healer in a group transitioning from clearing to farming, or replace a DPS in a group just learning an instance.

actually I was able to tank Ifrit on Conjurer/whitemage so why can't a redmage do it. lol...
The problem here is monster hit's and does the same dammage no mater what gear you wear--- the problem here is the dammage of a monster is sooo powerfull your deffense doesnt even mater-----
se need's to change that--- make hp less usefull and deffense more usefull----
hence they need to make it so 1 deffense monster(Bosses) hits for 9999 while 100 deffense a monster no mater how powerfull they are get's there dammage reduced by 25% at 200 50% at 300 60% at 400 70% at 500 75% at 600 80%----- that would mean if you had 600 deffense-- (Glad Gear only/ marauder cant wear these type of gear) you would get hit for 1999.8 by Ifrit-

while if you are at 500 marauder gear 75% Ifrit would hit you for 2499.05 dammage on average----



And what is wrong with adding choice for different play styles ?



For the same reason you don't take 4 Shamans into an instance or dungeon in WoW, you balance them to be comparable to other classes.

Of course SE can't even balance Paladin properly so I guess it's not a such a great idea after all.

[KaiserDrill]

Alot of really good ideas here. Although im not a RDM by any means i did have an idea for them i thought might work. What if they had an ability (not a spell) that would allow them to casr in the middle of a combo without interrupting it. For instance, rdm does tier one ws, pops ability, casts a cure or debuff, then continues on with combo.

I dont think this would be op only because i think the timer for the combo should stay going. That would require the player to have to be quick about choices and it would also prevent them from casting high level spells as they have longer casting times. Basically theyd have to be able to pull off the ability, cast and still have time to pop the second ws to keep the combo going.

[DannyPhantom]

self refresh only

[Cendres]

I'd love to be a red mage, I never took it very far in XI regretfully. I've heard all the red mage angst though and I do hope their role is better this time around. Dancer and blue mage were a lot of fun as well, red mage should feel they kick butt like those jobs did.

[KiniRyris]

Yes and Yes! I never played a lot of red mage in FFXI because of this. FFXI-RDM had some cool spells that boosted melee attacks but were never used in party play.

I totally agree that RDM combos should include melee+spell actions, great thought! And i kinda like the idea of attack spells costing TP, but i think it should cost both TP and MP, but a small amount of TP. Something like 250-500 TP and 100 MP. Free TP when used in a combo.