Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Eremor]

The versatility of the classes stems almost entirely from their optimization for PVP content. As such every DPS class needs some survival abilities and every support class needs some DPS capability. Jobs can of course capitalize on this versatility but not by much, the traits of a class can have a fairly significant impact on what roles it can fill (particularly traits that enhance certain skills, IE Enhanced Outmaneuver) and right now there are no additional job traits nor can we select any cross-class traits.

As for keeping RDM in melee without focusing on DPS, my answer was to tie strong debuffs to their En-spells (so that they have to keep hitting the mob to apply the effect). Actually, my build has gone through some revisions trying to incorporate other ideas and I might repost it (or go back and edit it but it's unlikely anyone would see it as it is buried somewhere in the middle of the thread).

[Duelle]

The main issue i find with getting multiple jobs from one class is that classes are for the most part specialized as is.

Indeed, and that would need to change to accomodate multiple jobs from one class. I touched on this when I proposed a GLA redesign in the GLA forums.

if after some time SE just can't see a good way to toss out Debuffs that have an impact while still Melee damaging, they might just settle for a "nuker who stabs things".

This is not exactly a bad thing. Debuffing as a job/class focus doesn't work very well. You can have nukers that rely on debuffs for damage multipliers (that's aside from how said spells hinder the mob), and the same principle easily applies to melee. If RDM was tuned so that it could do optimal damage with debuffs up, I'd probably be content with the job. Of course, we'd have to limit RDM to instant casts and at the most three debuffs, else the rotation becomes a pain.

[Eremor]

Pretty bored here atm so I'll just go ahead and post my updated Red Mage build. Ultimately I would like to see a fairly unified build that we can put forward and say to SE "Please make Red Mage something like this." Obviously not everyone is going to like any single build but hopefully we can make one that is popular enough for SE to take seriously.

Abilities are presented in a non-standard format simply to make it easier to see how the job would play. Starting with Fencer as the base class.

Weaponskills:

Lunge - Basic rapier attack, accuracy increased from in front of the target.
Spell combo: Slow; combo bonus: Increases the target's spell casting and WS charge times.

Combos to:
Flourish - Inflicts accuracy down; Combo bonus: Increased accuracy down effect.

---

Indirect Lunge - chance to inflict TP bleed from the left or right of the target.
Spell combo: Blind; combo bonus: Inflicts Blind on enemies within area of effect.

Combos to:
Spirit Taker - deals damage to target's MP; Combo bonus: Drain MP.

---

Fletch - a running attack that passes through the target, chance to inflict Bleed when used from in front of the target.
Spell combo: Paralyze; Combo bonus: Inflicts Stun.

Combos to:
Tranche - a disorienting attack that exposes weakness, inflicts Imperil; Combo bonus: Increased Imperil duration.

Combos to:
(Red Mage weaponskill) Spellblade - A powerful elemental attack, element varies with current En-spell; Combo bonus: Increased damage.
Spell Combo: Dispel; Combo bonus: Removes multiple effects.

Spells:

Blind

Slow

Paralyze

Temper - Increases auto-attack damage by a set amount based on enhancement magic potency; Self target (aoe with Sacred Prism).

Barrier - decreases incoming damage by a set amount based on enhancement magic potency; Self target (aoe with Sacred Prism).

(Red Mage spell) Dispel

Abilities:

Enblizzard - adds ice elemental damage to attacks and inflicts evasion down. Consumes MP while active.

Enthunder - adds lightning elemental damage to attacks and inflicts attack down. Consumes MP while active.

(Red Mage ability) Enwater - adds water elemental damage to attacks and inflicts defense down. Consumes MP while active.

Expose - resets the target's resistance to your next enfeebling magic spell.

Composure - evade the next area of effect attack.

(Red Mage ability) Refresh - converts half your current TP into MP for the target.

(Red Mage 15 minute ability) Runic Blade - absorb hostile spells with your sword, nullifying their effect and restoring your MP.

Traits:

Enhanced Physical Accuracy
Enhanced Magic Accuracy, levels I and II
Enhanced Enfeebling Magic Potency, levels I and II
Swift Composure
Enhanced Composure - adds Regen effect while active.
Swift Expose
Enhanced Expose - adds a chance to reset the target's resistance to all enfeebling magic.
Fast Cast, levels I and II - gives you a 15% (20% at level II) chance to cast your next spell instantly.

[Hyrist]

You'd think being a staunch supporter of Red Mage's in the front lines for nearly a decade in FFXI (to the point of infamy) would actually intice me to speak up about this issue more.

But the fact of the matter is, I'm actually pretty confident that Yoshida will get this right. Something on how they described close range attacks and enfeebeling magic as their Red Mage example just struck me as correct.

They know what the desire for the Lovers of Red Mages are. And I think they'll be striving to meet it.

At this point, I'm content to wait and see. If I'm impressed enough. Hyrist (of) Midgardsormr will make a return.

[Eremor]

That's probably a good attitude to have. Although, on the other hand there's Paladin...

In all honesty it is highly unlikely that SE would even bother to look at a player submitted class build unless it somehow was favored by over 50% of the entire player base world-wide (and not just the small fraction who want to see Red Mage again). I don't think any single person on these forums could drum up that kind of support (I certainly couldn't). So really all we are doing here is dreaming of possibilities.

But sometimes it is nice just to dream.

[Duelle]

It's not as hopeless, really. Just have to look at things pragmatically. If it works out and we like the job, then all good. If we get refresh/haste/cure/enfeeble bot, then there's always the account cancel button (if you're like me, anyways).

[Raistlin]

and now you are not a front line class either, u will be not a class

Musketer won.

[Duelle]

I'm sure it'll come someday. May not be at 2.0 launch, but if anything that means I get to stay here. Thanks for the bump, either way.

[JTSpender]

Yeah, I have to say I was extremely disappointed by those poll results. I guess the one bright spot is that if there was a competition between RDM and DRK for enfeebling class, RDM won.

[Kertz]

As much as Red Mage has been a part of FF history, people need to remember the difficulties of balancing a jack-of-all-trades class especially in an MMO. They already gave their En spells to MNK, BRD the Buffs. Perhaps if Red Mage focused on Enfeebling it could work. But balancing it was a nightmare in FFXI leaving it either OP or UP. I'm sure its a load off the developers back too