Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

[Hyrist]

You'd think being a staunch supporter of Red Mage's in the front lines for nearly a decade in FFXI (to the point of infamy) would actually intice me to speak up about this issue more.

But the fact of the matter is, I'm actually pretty confident that Yoshida will get this right. Something on how they described close range attacks and enfeebeling magic as their Red Mage example just struck me as correct.

They know what the desire for the Lovers of Red Mages are. And I think they'll be striving to meet it.

At this point, I'm content to wait and see. If I'm impressed enough. Hyrist (of) Midgardsormr will make a return.

[Eremor]

That's probably a good attitude to have. Although, on the other hand there's Paladin...

In all honesty it is highly unlikely that SE would even bother to look at a player submitted class build unless it somehow was favored by over 50% of the entire player base world-wide (and not just the small fraction who want to see Red Mage again). I don't think any single person on these forums could drum up that kind of support (I certainly couldn't). So really all we are doing here is dreaming of possibilities.

But sometimes it is nice just to dream.

[Duelle]

It's not as hopeless, really. Just have to look at things pragmatically. If it works out and we like the job, then all good. If we get refresh/haste/cure/enfeeble bot, then there's always the account cancel button (if you're like me, anyways).

[Raistlin]

and now you are not a front line class either, u will be not a class

Musketer won.

[Duelle]

I'm sure it'll come someday. May not be at 2.0 launch, but if anything that means I get to stay here. Thanks for the bump, either way.

[JTSpender]

Yeah, I have to say I was extremely disappointed by those poll results. I guess the one bright spot is that if there was a competition between RDM and DRK for enfeebling class, RDM won.

[Kertz]

As much as Red Mage has been a part of FF history, people need to remember the difficulties of balancing a jack-of-all-trades class especially in an MMO. They already gave their En spells to MNK, BRD the Buffs. Perhaps if Red Mage focused on Enfeebling it could work. But balancing it was a nightmare in FFXI leaving it either OP or UP. I'm sure its a load off the developers back too

[syntaxlies]

As much as Red Mage has been a part of FF history, people need to remember the difficulties of balancing a jack-of-all-trades class especially in an MMO. They already gave their En spells to MNK, BRD the Buffs. Perhaps if Red Mage focused on Enfeebling it could work. But balancing it was a nightmare in FFXI leaving it either OP or UP. I'm sure its a load off the developers back too

With mobs having debuff resist now a enfeebling class wouldn't be worth it in a long battle unless their enfeebled lasted longer then other jbs.

[JTSpender]

As much as Red Mage has been a part of FF history, people need to remember the difficulties of balancing a jack-of-all-trades class especially in an MMO. They already gave their En spells to MNK, BRD the Buffs. Perhaps if Red Mage focused on Enfeebling it could work. But balancing it was a nightmare in FFXI leaving it either OP or UP. I'm sure its a load off the developers back too

I totally agree that the "melee + white magic + black magic" combo as their main focus really isn't viable. I play hybrid classes in most games when I can, and I don't think people appreciate quite how difficult those are to balance. I'd be totally happy with an enfeebling "magic fencer" style class for RDM in FFXIV whose primary skills involve debuffing weaponskills and/or spells.

That said, the thing about enfeebles is that unless their duration is super-short, you're not going to spend *all* your time doing that. Buffing is an important part of being a FFXIV BRD, but they spend a lot (most?) of their time dealing damage, unlike FFXI bards. Enfeebling can be a core part of FFXIV RDM while still leaving room for DD or some backup healing. If you gave them access to CNJ and THM as subs there are some tricks you could do around the edges to make it "feel" more like a traditional RDM without trying to make it a full on hybrid. With only one cure spell and the first tier nukes, they're never going to be primary healers or nukers. But, honestly, it could be a simple as giving them a weaponskill or ability on a 30 or 45 second cooldown that "empowers" the next first tier heal/nuke spell to hit more like a -ra spell... that would go a long way towards making the class "feel" more like that hybrid mage without really making it one.

With mobs having debuff resist now a enfeebling class wouldn't be worth it in a long battle unless their enfeebled lasted longer then other jbs.

I don't think we really need to worry about them making a debuff class and having it be totally useless for those reasons. I also suspect that they won't want a debuff class to totally step on the toes of the debuffs that other classes have on their WS, and I suspect when those debuffs were selected, they were done so in consideration of what a future debuff class might be able to do.

I could see a situation where more mild debuffs (stat down, slow, etc) could be applied throughout the battle, whereas certain strong debuffs (silence, paralyze, sleeps, etc) were subject to resists and so you'd need to make interesting decisions about when to use them on harder/longer fights.

[AceofRains]

I totally agree that the "melee + white magic + black magic" combo as their main focus really isn't viable. I play hybrid classes in most games when I can, and I don't think people appreciate quite how difficult those are to balance. I'd be totally happy with an enfeebling "magic fencer" style class for RDM in FFXIV whose primary skills involve debuffing weaponskills and/or spells.

That said, the thing about enfeebles is that unless their duration is super-short, you're not going to spend *all* your time doing that. Buffing is an important part of being a FFXIV BRD, but they spend a lot (most?) of their time dealing damage, unlike FFXI bards. Enfeebling can be a core part of FFXIV RDM while still leaving room for DD or some backup healing. If you gave them access to CNJ and THM as subs there are some tricks you could do around the edges to make it "feel" more like a traditional RDM without trying to make it a full on hybrid. With only one cure spell and the first tier nukes, they're never going to be primary healers or nukers. But, honestly, it could be a simple as giving them a weaponskill or ability on a 30 or 45 second cooldown that "empowers" the next first tier heal/nuke spell to hit more like a -ra spell... that would go a long way towards making the class "feel" more like that hybrid mage without really making it one.

PLEASE PLEASE read my build for red mage