How many mistakes are too many?

[Lihtleita]

theres a big different between accidently killing yourself and taking the tank mechanic as a dps, wiping the group.

[Aurelius2625]

If it's a prog party for phase 2 and you keep messing up phase 1, you get kicked or I leave. Simple as that. We wipe on phase 2? No issues, that is the current prog in the party.

Unfortunately, some people are just too dumb lol. I hate to say it, but some people legit just aren't cut out for it. That's fine, that's what you have RP for and casual content. It's no big deal, but do not expect savage raiders to hard carry u thru content u don't know. Lol.

[Violet_Galaxy]

I tend to have a "two strike" rule, possibly a "one". My patience has greatly diminished this expansion. I won't bother trying to kick, I'll just leave and do something else with my time. Tired of idiots.

[Nekaru_Infitima]

If it's a prog party for phase 2 and you keep messing up phase 1, you get kicked or I leave. Simple as that. We wipe on phase 2? No issues, that is the current prog in the party.

Unfortunately, some people are just too dumb lol. I hate to say it, but some people legit just aren't cut out for it. That's fine, that's what you have RP for and casual content. It's no big deal, but do not expect savage raiders to hard carry u thru content u don't know. Lol.

And that's why people hate on elitists. Because of that arrogance right there. Do not call other players dumb just because they take time learning. ANYONE can master the mechanics eventually if by muscle memory or remembering it. You're not special because you can pick up on raiding faster than others.

[Liam_Harper]

Cheers, good perspectives here. As expected, it varies with both the player and the type of content but for players who prefer not to spend their time wiping to mistakes, 2-3 mistakes that lead to a death or wipe seems to be a good strike rule. In this case I still wonder is it best to simply leave yourself, to wait for the party to kick you, or to offer to leave. If you simply drop, you might have left a patient group who's now down a player, but if you hang around waiting for a kick you might cause 3 decent players to drop to avoid conflict and now everyone loses out.

If that person is willing to learn but is struggling with a fight, leaving doesn't make that person learn and that person will still need to struggle with the fight with another group. So if the party is willing to have that person, then that person should stay rather than simply jump from group to group that may have different ideas on how to do the fight.

In theory I'd agree. In practice I had to drop my first run in SoS normal and 3 SoS EX practice groups barely into P1, but still cleared it comfortably multiple times within the next few days. It feels bad but I guess maybe the drop/kick is a motivation to do better.
My own issue is that I know mechanics or can pick them up if explained, I know the theory of my class and if I'm on form I push reasonable (but not amazing) damage. But the first runs are always rough and some days I just brain-derp. Like when I tried AST in e5s recently, I forgot orbs twice and died even though I know that fight inside out and DF in e8s was my bane for weeks for no reason.

From a party perspective, I feel off days happen. I think stressing over mistakes too much leads to a crash in performance anyway and if I lead a group I prefer it's chill. I'm usually in groups for the social experience and as long as people are trying, open to advice and not trolling that's all I'd ask. But that's not a playstyle I'd force on others or expect them to share. So I like to be open to all perspectives.

[Seddrinth]

It really depends on a lot of things. If I see a guy with ultimate clears and gold/orange parses then I would chalk up the mistakes to having a bad day or just rust, and be more patient. If a guy keeps messing up and I see grey logs and I would be more inclined to just replace right away. Even if someone has purple/blue logs I'm usually pretty patient.

[Coletergeist]

And that's why people hate on elitists. Because of that arrogance right there. Do not call other players dumb just because they take time learning. ANYONE can master the mechanics eventually if by muscle memory or remembering it. You're not special because you can pick up on raiding faster than others.

You didn't read what they said.
If a player is having that much of an issue, they should try again later, possibly watch a video, something.
They said "if they keep messing up" in which I agree, because by that point, said player is wasting everyone else's time.
It's not shameful to try again later, and it certainly doesn't make folks like that "elitist & special".

[linayar]

In theory I'd agree. In practice I had to drop my first run in SoS normal and 3 SoS EX practice groups barely into P1, but still cleared it comfortably multiple times within the next few days. It feels bad but I guess maybe the drop/kick is a motivation to do better.
My own issue is that I know mechanics or can pick them up if explained, I know the theory of my class and if I'm on form I push reasonable (but not amazing) damage. But the first runs are always rough and some days I just brain-derp. Like when I tried AST in e5s recently, I forgot orbs twice and died even though I know that fight inside out and DF in e8s was my bane for weeks for no reason.

I'm not sure if that has to do with the drop/kick or because it's just another day. People have off days and anytime you join a random group, all the randomness for each person in the group plays a factor.

From a party perspective, I feel off days happen. I think stressing over mistakes too much leads to a crash in performance anyway and if I lead a group I prefer it's chill. I'm usually in groups for the social experience and as long as people are trying, open to advice and not trolling that's all I'd ask. But that's not a playstyle I'd force on others or expect them to share. So I like to be open to all perspectives.

Sure, and again, it's up to the party to give out and enforce "reasonable" expectations. But as long as people do not have any misgivings about the current group, then it's not wrong to continue.

[Vyrerus]

I basically don't care about mistakes as long as it doesn't cause a wipe. People die all the time, and the "good" players kill themselves a lot too, trying to greed in on their parses with no consideration for anyone else.

Basically the only time I'll take issue with anybody is if somebody starts to smack talk on someone who is either performing better or isn't responsible for a mistake that had just occurred. It's more common between the tank and healer dynamic, as I don't parse, but occasionally it's DPS on DPS usually in regards to who was supposed to stand where.

A lot of times people start preemptive smack talk in order to try and veil their own incompetence, and that grinds my gears worse than anything else. If you make a mistake, own up to it. With all of the ways people have to look over fights it's unlikely that you'll get away with shifting the blame to an innocent. Those types of people I am willing to throw away a party for or kick, of course, sometimes people join up with their friends and when you kick one they all go, but oh well. That's life.

[MicahZerrshia]

For me it really depends. If we are in a phase 2 prog party and you cannot get thru phase 1, you are in the wrong party is should be replaced. Everyone makes mistakes, but if you are consistent at it, you may be to go back and practice that first phase.

It also depends on how you handle yourself. I prefer using voice chat for content that requires more practice, like extremes and savage content. And if you are the person messing up over and over and over again and laughing about how bad you are, then you are out. We can have a good time, but be respectful of others and their time. If you are holding the group back and then laughing about it, you then seem like you are not trying and are just pissing ppl off.

If you are actively trying, and asking questions and not being a general ja, then you get a lot more patience out of those you are with.