How many mistakes are too many?

[Vyrerus]

I basically don't care about mistakes as long as it doesn't cause a wipe. People die all the time, and the "good" players kill themselves a lot too, trying to greed in on their parses with no consideration for anyone else.

Basically the only time I'll take issue with anybody is if somebody starts to smack talk on someone who is either performing better or isn't responsible for a mistake that had just occurred. It's more common between the tank and healer dynamic, as I don't parse, but occasionally it's DPS on DPS usually in regards to who was supposed to stand where.

A lot of times people start preemptive smack talk in order to try and veil their own incompetence, and that grinds my gears worse than anything else. If you make a mistake, own up to it. With all of the ways people have to look over fights it's unlikely that you'll get away with shifting the blame to an innocent. Those types of people I am willing to throw away a party for or kick, of course, sometimes people join up with their friends and when you kick one they all go, but oh well. That's life.

[MicahZerrshia]

For me it really depends. If we are in a phase 2 prog party and you cannot get thru phase 1, you are in the wrong party is should be replaced. Everyone makes mistakes, but if you are consistent at it, you may be to go back and practice that first phase.

It also depends on how you handle yourself. I prefer using voice chat for content that requires more practice, like extremes and savage content. And if you are the person messing up over and over and over again and laughing about how bad you are, then you are out. We can have a good time, but be respectful of others and their time. If you are holding the group back and then laughing about it, you then seem like you are not trying and are just pissing ppl off.

If you are actively trying, and asking questions and not being a general ja, then you get a lot more patience out of those you are with.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

[Absurdity]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

Because you really don't join FCs to raid in this game. Pretty much anything to do with endgame content is done with a static that is separate from whatever FC you're in, there isn't really enough high end content that it would even make sense to create an entire "guild" for it.

But just like in all other games people sometimes can't or don't want to adhere to a fixed time schedule and instead decide to pug the fights in party finder. It works fine for the most part but occasionally suffers from the same issues as pretty much everything else involving completely random people, they have different strats, levels of skills or experience and sometimes can't even be bothered to read a description.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

That sounds like a choice- and if you're making a choice to pug you should realize you're making a pug. Especially for the people who seem to be regularly frustrated by pugs- random players are consistently bad in just about every game, it's more surprising that pugs are good enough here to do savage content- I wouldn't trust pugs in other MMOs to be able to handle it.

[Yeol]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

Some are already a part of HC FC or a static, but they still join PF on their alts. It's good because:
- They help fill PF.
- They help other players get their clear.
- They get to experiment with other jobs/roles and get even better at the game.
You can find a lot of streamers doing this.

Another reason is that they may not have a lot of free time, or they may work in shifts, and can't find an FC or a static that fits their needs.

[ADVSS]

Some are already a part of HC FC or a static, but they still join PF on their alts. It's good because:
- They help fill PF.
- They help other players get their clear.
- They get to experiment with other jobs/roles and get even better at the game.
You can find a lot of streamers doing this.

Another reason is that they may not have a lot of free time, or they may work in shifts, and can't find an FC or a static that fits their needs.

To add to that, actual hardcore FC will have some rediculous expectations of their members, I've heard of some checking your DPS every so ften and if you arent in their range, boop thats it for you buddy. Some people just don't have the desire to commit like that, but my PERSONAL experience is that you get leagues better playing with unpredictable randos, rather than doing content with nearly perfect players. It makes the content even more difficult, but you walk out of it much more capable, if you're trying to improve.

[linayar]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

1. As far as I know, there is no reward for completing a high-end duty as part of a free company.
2. As far as I know, there is no high-end duty preparation needed that requires the resource that only a free company can do.
3. There is no restriction on forming cross-world group.
4. Most high-end duty party size is small enough to not incentivize forming a free company for unless you just want to be in a small FC that you do high-end duty with.
5. There may not be enough free company with that type of focus given a presumably more casual player base.
6. Other reasons: not wanting to be in a free company just to do high-end duties, etc.

[MicahZerrshia]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

In ffxi we had a static in our ls, the same group of us for nearly a decade, ran content multiple times a week, building relics and mythics, farming NMs and BCNMs for rare loot, popping sky gods, etc. But there is a big difference between ffxiv and other mmos. In ffxiv, the content comes out, you clear it, maybe do it a few other times for drops and then take a 2 month break until the next patch drops, and you repeat.

ffxiv simply cannot sustain this sort of guild type because there is not enough content of any kind that takes actual dedication for the long term. There are no long term goals. This game simply has nothing to offer the real hardcore raid guilds, which is why they are so few and far between in ffxiv and pugging is king. Often these groups who raid together, also raid together in other games that have those long term goals, that takes more dedication that a week or two, 4 times a year.

[Seddrinth]

The thing I don't understand is why all the players with very high skill expectations haven't done what such players do in every other game- join an FC dedicated to high end content. I've never raided heroic content or high M+ in WoW with people outside my guilds, and I'm pretty midcore- a hardcore player with high expectations really should save themselves the stress by being part of a top end FC instead of pugging savage+ content.

I mean, most high level statics/fc finished farming for gear and got their parses half a year ago. People should be able to go into a farm group and expect everyone else to be farm ready.