PSA: Mentors can talk about anything they want in Novice Network - Discussion with GM

[LisannaTargaryen]

Copy Paste from my thread in Reddit http://tinyurl.com/jee9zlm

As usual the Novice Network was filled with useless banter on how to meld a Bard (in my case) and strategies about Midas. So i kicked offenders with the reasoning "Useless Spamming". Some mentors took offence cause i kicked their friends (speculation) and reported me to a GM for abusing the kick system and we had the following discussion




At least we now know the stance of SE on the matter

TL;DR: SE endorses mentors to use the system as a global chatroom without caring about sprout needs

The purpose of the thread is to bring visibility to the issue and I would like to focus on the gist of the conversation that is the novice network and what SE supports not how salty i am or how i feel about the ban

[Ashkendor]

That's actually pretty lame. Glad I haven't bothered joining if it's fine to just use it as a global chat.

I'd rather help new people on a one on one basis when I run into them.

[SecretCrowds]

All the more reason for me to avoid this channel. And I hope the sprouts get the ability to reject those "invites" and leave the channel.

I'd rather do what I have always done in the past. Help those that need help individually. I have helped new (and not-so-new) players in the past and I definitely don't need the mentor system or that channel to help others. I just hope this system and the channel doesn't turn off the new players.

[Jynx]

Regardless of what some random GM tells me, the Novice chat should be reserved for...you know helping the Novice players placed into it.

The odd bit of chat is fine but when it's reduced to a glorified global chat that's another story. We as a community need to enforce proper etiquette not with random kicks but with social awareness.

[Breezelyn]

I read the patch notes about the whole mentor thing, and they weren't very clear on WHAT you could do/say in the novice channel. I find this punishment of a ban you got slightly unfair. They weren't very clear on what can be discussed in the Novice channel in the first place. There should be clear rules on what you can and cannot say in that channel. Examples on potential valid reasons mentors could be kicked from channel:

1. No spoilers are to be discussed in the novice channel. New players don't know anything about the storyline. It would ruin their overall experience of the game.
2. No advertising for raids, statics, selling things, etc etc. You can use PF/Shouting in city states for that
3. No FC advertisements (unsure about this one)

Just some general things like that would keep the chat possibly clean. Don't mind general chat to help the newbies feel welcome. At least, I hope that's what people are doing. <-<

[WellFooled]

I can understand why SE would take this stance, it's frustrating to have your conversation policed. While I agree that cluttering up the novice chat with too much idle conversation can be frustrating, if a conversation you're having naturally flows to topics not directly relavent to teaching I don't think players should be kicked from the chat because of it.

Imagine discussing with a sprout and they ask you about PvP (how to unlock it, does it offer rewards, etc) you answer their questions, and then they ask you "Do you like PvP?". Your personal opinions aren't strictly teaching, you're moving into just plain old conversation territory and if engaging in anything other than pure teaching is a kickable offense than you're in trouble.

If the conversation is constructive (like your examples of melding bards and strategies about Midas) a newbie can still learn by listening or participating in that kind of conversation. They might want to know what the end game raids are and learn about things like melding stat caps, I know I wanted to know those things when I first started.

I think we should do our best to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter when it comes to the novice chat.

[Welsper59]

It's just typical SE trying to avoid instances of punishing players being bad simply because they are taking part in something that participation numbers are what they are looking for. Players utilizing an intentional help system for inexperienced beginning players as a means to converse about irrelevant topics to them, despite complaints by the very people it was intended to help, is exactly how it should be (in the devs/SE's mind). Allowing abuse of PvP and Gold Saucer win trading = people are playing, so they don't want to discourage players from taking part in it or else it'll look bad. Allowing players to take advantage of removed restrictions in Diadem = working as intended. They don't want you to hinder others' play style. People playing = success. Punishing players = failure. Can't promote failure. They have to silence goody goody players that actually care to use the system as advertised, otherwise it'll show that there's bad people in their game. Like everything else they bring about, it's either done with or they'll patch it up much later... you know, because that's always the best way to do things in an MMORPG.

[Khalithar]

Interesting.

I don't personally think idle discussion and chat should be against the rules either. If anything having a group of people to chat with from the get go might make newer players feel more comfortable and meet other people.

[Adire]

More reason for me to avoid this channel. Thanks for sharing, OP. I'll just meet and help newbies the old fashioned way

[Welsper59]

Interesting.

I don't personally think idle discussion and chat should be against the rules either. If anything having a group of people to chat with from the get go might make newer players feel more comfortable and meet other people.

That's generally not how socialization works when you're involving new comers. It's like someone being invited to some party with people of a higher status for the first time, not knowing anyone there, and overhearing some conversation going on about a subject they know nothing at all about. Do you awkwardly jump in and interrupt them? Or do you just remain silent and go about your business? The channel is for mentor players to primarily engage with helping the newbies. From what the SS shows, it may have apparently annoyed the new players more than encouraging them. That's not to say they can't engage in the subject on the channel, but that channel is not intended for it, thus the OP should not have been in the wrong for it (unless there were some other circumstance at play). Similarly, why do topics get moved from General to other parts of the official forums? It's the same concept of designating places for specific things.