Remove damage from movement skills

[TheMightyMollusk]

At the least, retreating moves should have no damage, simply to reduce all of the times people trying to maximize their DPS instead threw themselves off a platform or into an AOE. Dragoon is the meme king for it, but red mages with badly-aimed Displacement are a strong contender.

[Avatre]

At the least, retreating moves should have no damage, simply to reduce all of the times people trying to maximize their DPS instead threw themselves off a platform or into an AOE. Dragoon is the meme king for it, but red mages with badly-aimed Displacement are a strong contender.

But a properly placed Displacement on Titan EX scares the crap out of your party, with your heels landing just on the edge of the platform. A lot of the time, it's just people not knowing how to judge the distance properly. Like in Titan, standing right in the middle of his circle(when he is in the middle of the arena) will land you on the edge.


As to what OP is saying about needing to get back close to the boss, these are the options that work for that:

1. Move the old fashioned way....just walk/run to the boss. It's not THAT far.

2. Use Sprint to get there if a boss used a knock back and you are far away.

3. Start the fight close to the boss, as Red Mage, and use Displacement first, then Corps-a-corps to get back close


Since I don't do savage, I can't think of anything other than Shiva Unreal where you would need to be that close to the boss(and only for when she is in sword or bow stances). While standing in Narnia isn't an option either(come on people, standing at the EXTREME limits of range just makes it so your healer needs to actually target you directly after raid-wide damage, and it also makes it so any mitigation buffs from a tank don't hit you, as well as any melee buffs for that matter), you could always just stay close enough when on any other class. Also, if you're in melee range you still get, while a pitifully small amount, auto attack damage dealt to the boss.

[Limonia]

When I think about it... using En Avant when you need is is fun. Having to use Displacement every few seconds not to lose any DPS is not. It's more some kind of annoyance or even a burden to do that stupid backstep everytime.

I get why some of them have DPS tied to movement actions. I just personally would like to see all movement skills decoupled from DPS. It's not THAT bad with tanks because they have charges and their DPS rotations are simpler. But for DPS I have much more fun playing a DPS that has no movement or "DPS free" movement than the ones that have both in one action. It's only fine for DRG, because it's such a big part of its class fantasy.

[Waterscape]

They could deliver that damage out with small increases in potency to other skills. I’m sure it’s more complicated than that but I think it would be worth the work to make melee feel a lot more fluid to play. Being stuck away from the boss for 2 gcds cus your movement ability was used when you didn’t need to move isn’t very fun

Play better then

[Morningstar1337]

Instead, I think they should add a new category to skill types. We have weaponskills, spells and abilities, I think they should add a “utility” category and it should include skills that can do damage but can’t be buffed, for example, won’t be effected by trick attack, battle litany, or personal buffs like fight or flight or brotherhood. That way you’d still want to use these skills for damage but combined with the charge system you could also hold onto the second charge and use it whenever within the recast of the first charge meaning you can still use them for damage but also have it available for when you want to move. (Which is the basic idea of why they added charges in the first place).

I agree with the charge issue, but as for the quoted part. I feel like "utility" would be strange considering that it would cover abilities like Mantra and Battle Litany as well GCDs like Raise.

Plus IMO it would make sense to have a 4th ability for those weird skills that are on the GCD yet have Cooldowns like oGCDs

[Gothicshark]

I think it would be great if SQenix would remove damage from movement skills like corps-a-corp and plunge. Idk about dragoon since that’s pretty vital to its fantasy, maybe just the 60 second one and lower its CD.

It’s just really painful using a movement ability for damage and then when you actually need to get back to the boss it’s on CD. Feels awful. I get that it’s a skill cap planning thing but that just seems so unncessarily contrived. If we were able to use our movement abilities just for closing in, melee would be a LOT more fun and intuitive to play. Just my opinion. What do y’all think?

It sounds like you are using your cold downs wrong. corps-a-corp is part of a Red Mage Rotation to transition from Ranged Casting to the short window of Melee DPS, then you jump back to range and cast away until your white and red are both near the top, and the red mana is ready.

As for Plunge, it is the Tank Charge for a Dark Knight. Tank Charges usually have damage and/or a stun (depending on class and MMO) if a Dark Knight is using it for anything other than charging into the next mob, they are doing it wrong. Your suggestion is based on playing a class wrong. So NO.

[ADVSS]

It sounds like you are using your cold downs wrong. corps-a-corp is part of a Red Mage Rotation to transition from Ranged Casting to the short window of Melee DPS, then you jump back to range and cast away until your white and red are both near the top, and the red mana is ready.

As for Plunge, it is the Tank Charge for a Dark Knight. Tank Charges usually have damage and/or a stun (depending on class and MMO) if a Dark Knight is using it for anything other than charging into the next mob, they are doing it wrong. Your suggestion is based on playing a class wrong. So NO.

Totally agree, Although Plunge is used to squeeze a little more DPS in when theres no need in the foreseeable future to springboard back. Usually only push it when im madly trying to Deeps, otherwise save at least a charge if springboard is needed in the fight. Besides that supplemental miniscule amount of damage increase, i agree. As for RDM yeah its pretty necessary. The comments about DRG are funny, the back jump only lowers enmity, and isnt necessary at all besides cool looking dodging out of immediate boss range, which is often used improperly anyway. It also does 0 damage. Displacement is necessary for RDM damage rotation, so tacking damage onto it is fine imo. I'm not even entirely sure what the fuss is from OP, so you dont want DRG iconic Jumps to do any damage?

[Fynlar]

The simplest solution would be to just remove the damage from these skills and have them purely for mobility, but it’s true that it seems silly to slam into an enemy with your shoulder or weapon/shield and do no damage.

Not any sillier than Repelling Shot requiring a target yet doing no damage tbh

At the least, retreating moves should have no damage, simply to reduce all of the times people trying to maximize their DPS instead threw themselves off a platform or into an AOE. Dragoon is the meme king for it, but red mages with badly-aimed Displacement are a strong contender.

This. There's too many instances where RDM literally can't use Displacement without killing themselves and I don't feel like that's fair to them.

[Stepjam]

Shukuchi got a second charge simply to increase NIN's independent mobility to make it stand out. It doesn't need damage tied to it to qualify for a second charge, otherwise En Avant which starts at one charge would be a culprit as well.

The reason tanks and Monk have charges on their gapcloser has more to do with the fact that they don't have alternative mobility as the remaining jobs.

- Dragoon has multiple types of jumps + Elusive Jump for a free-directional 15-yalm lunge.
- Samurai and Warrior's gapcloser are tied to resource management in exchange for a shorter cooldown.
- Red Mage hangs out in range and lunges into melee distance for their combo. Even using CaC on cooldown they are more than mobile enough and their weaponskills have shorter recasts. Displacement depending on the cooldown alignment is often less favored to Engagement to allow more stable weaving, but in turn Displacement does more damage so it's fairly alright.

Even assuming a gapcloser would still have a single charge, that is kind of where gamesense comes into play. Do you hold your gapcloser for a while so you can zip right in after having to run out or do you use it on cooldown and use Sprint to get back and forth? Depending on the situation, holding the gapcloser has a greater benefit than using it on cooldown because it allows you to keep the global cooldown rolling.

If the Monk and Tank gap closers were single charge, there is no "gamesense" to be had, for optimal damage they need to be used right off cooldown like any other oGCD. The longer you hold them, less uses of those skills you get in per fight, thus you lose damage. That's why they added charges, so you can keep the damage on them but also hold onto them for actual mobility purposes. Because as long as one of the charges is charging, you aren't losing DPS by holding the other, as long as it's used before the second charge finishes charging. That's just how optimal play works, DPS is king.

[wereotter]

I'm in favor of this. It's become better now that movement skills can stack, but for years there was the tradeoff on monk about using shoulder tackle to maximize damage or holding onto it because you knew you'd have to disengage from a boss and wanted to use it to get back in. Now you can just hold some of them and let the timer tick up so you can do both, but I would still just prefer to have 100 potency added to Elixir Field (for example) and Shoulder Tackle just used for movement.