Question: Relics first? Extreme primals last?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You are mixing being casual with being "not good" at the game.


P.S: We cleared extremes when it was relevant.

Once again, it's people having 2 opinions on what denotes "casual, mid core, hardcore"


To me it's always been time spent. Casual players spend the least amount of time playing while hardcore players spend the most.


I am a hardcore player, but a casual raider.

I have 3 2.5 hour raid nights. I have cleared the 4th savage floor, and am doing ultimate. But I am not in a hardcore or even midcore static. We are casual.


However, I am definitely hardcore when it comes to xiv in general. I have 15000 hours logged on my character since 2010, I play most days. I have done nearly all content available. Been to nearly every fanfest.

[Amnmaat]

You are mixing being casual with being "not good" at the game.


P.S: We cleared extremes when it was relevant.

No I don't. You can't just bring any level 80 out of the streets and clear Seat of Sacrifice with them. It takes a more dedicated type of player to clear that trial, thus not a casual.

[Astrus]

As someone who rarely does Extreme Primals when they're new I'd prefer it if they released the relic steps earlier instead, but thats just my preferrance and hardly seems fair to the mid- to hardcore players who have little enough "current" content at most times as it is.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

No I don't. You can't just bring any level 80 out of the streets and clear Seat of Sacrifice with them. It takes a more dedicated type of player to clear that trial, thus not a casual.

No, that's just skill. You can play the game very seldomly and be skilled, just like all the people who play lots and aren't skilled.


We need to stop using terms that apply to time spent as skill level.


We need to stop calling bad players casuals. We need to go back to calling them what we should have been all along. The unskilled players.

[Hanayumi]

Not sure you can truely consider relic casual anyway, sure its not difficult, but still a hell of grind, with as much if not more time and effect than savage or ultimate.

[Amnmaat]

No, that's just skill. You can play the game very seldomly and be skilled, just like all the people who play lots and aren't skilled.


We need to stop using terms that apply to time spent as skill level.


We need to stop calling bad players casuals. We need to go back to calling them what we should have been all along. The unskilled players.

Indeed, the mmorpg community has had a really hard time with these terms.
I'll agree the skilled/unskilled definition of the 2 types of players that exist in mmos. However, people act dumb, they know things like extremes are not meant for the "unskilled," which is the majority of the subscribers. Which in turn is why they should give them something to do first, they're the first kind of people that will let the subscriptions lapse, as they are not that dedicated to the game in the first place.

The "skilled" ones are the ones who live at the bleeding edge, who can still do Eden 8 savage until the Extremes come out 2 months later.

[Amnmaat]

Not sure you can truely consider relic casual anyway, sure its not difficult, but still a hell of grind, with as much if not more time and effect than savage or ultimate.

Yes, if people were around during A realm reborn or Heavensward they'd understand that just 1 relic would take a casual who only plays maybe 4 hours a day 4-5 days a week 2 months or more to complete 1 relic step.
And that's exactly the point, this keeps casuasl busy. Just expecting them to do roulettes every day is borderline torture.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Indeed, the mmorpg community has had a really hard time with these terms.
I'll agree the skilled/unskilled definition of the 2 types of players that exist in mmos. However, people act dumb, they know things like extremes are not meant for the "unskilled," which is the majority of the subscribers.

The problem is that skill is a spectrum not a binary and not all casuals are unskilled and not all hardcore players are skilled.

The Casual/Hardcore descriptions was originally present as a description of how a player participated in content rather than an amount played description. You can play a game casually nearly constantly (like a fair amount of RPers) and you can play a game hardcore for a limited amount of time each week (like many savage raiders and PvPers).

The main problem is that some players do not want to be considered "Hardcore" due to the negative connotations associated with the term (things like "no life," "elitist," etc.) which is how you end up with Hardcore raiders who consider them selves Casuals because they "only" spend 7.5 hours each week reclearing the current raids.

Which in turn is why they should give them something to do first, they're the first kind of people that will let the subscriptions lapse, as they are not that dedicated to the game in the first place.

Subscriptions lapsing happens even with Hardcore players. A fair number of Hardcore raiders actually stop playing after their statics have gotten all the gear they need until the next big Ultimate or Savage raid comes out.

Casual players on the other hand are more likely to actually have stuff they are slowly doing without rushing.

[Deceptus]

You can say not true as much as you want. Changes nothing, is casual content.

Just because you say something is true, doesn't mean it is.

To many, EX content is not casual content because they have Enrage timers and DPS checks, one shot kill mechanics. If anything I'd call it mid tier content between normal raids and savage.

IMHO:

Dungeons / Normal 8 mans / Normal 24 mans > Casual

EX content / Unreal > Mid Tier

Savage > Upper Tier

Ultimate > Top Tier

[Amnmaat]

Subscriptions lapsing happens even with Hardcore players. A fair number of Hardcore raiders actually stop playing after their statics have gotten all the gear they need until the next big Ultimate or Savage raid comes out.

Casual players on the other hand are more likely to actually have stuff they are slowly doing without rushing.

In my experience the opposite is true.