Question: Relics first? Extreme primals last?

[Driavna]

Once again, it's people having 2 opinions on what denotes "casual, mid core, hardcore"


To me it's always been time spent. Casual players spend the least amount of time playing while hardcore players spend the most.


I am a hardcore player, but a casual raider.

I have 3 2.5 hour raid nights. I have cleared the 4th savage floor, and am doing ultimate. But I am not in a hardcore or even midcore static. We are casual.


However, I am definitely hardcore when it comes to xiv in general. I have 15000 hours logged on my character since 2010, I play most days. I have done nearly all content available. Been to nearly every fanfest.

My main thing here is people mixing casual/hardcore (the time you are willing to commit) with the personal skill level required to clear something.

Examples of hardcore content:

- SKybuilders ranking
- Hunt achievements

[Stepjam]

No, this is fine. It allows the people who commit to clearing harder content early access to better gear, but then gives those who aren't as interested in that access to better gear later on. Besides, Bozja is presumably going to be more substantial than a single ex fight, so it's understandable that they are releasing it later rather than at launch (if you agree that spreading out content over a few months rather than frontloading everything is a good idea)

[Xatsh]

It blows my mind how the definition of Casual, Midcore, and Hardcore has changed over the the last 16yrs.

In my eyes it is combination between midset and playtime. Skill or Experience has NOTHING to do with skill.

I would define it as this:

Someone playing <15hrs a week is playing the game casually. If they clear all the content and have top parses on all the logs but only play 10hrs a week.... they are still playing the game casually. They are just really really good. In fact at this point most the best players are playing extremely casually because they beat everything already.
Someone playing between 15 and 40 is playing midcore. Again could be good or bad. That does not effect it.
Someone playing 40hrs+ a week is playing the game hardcore. If they struggle to beat normal mode trials. They are still playing hardcore they are just really really bad.

I will say the casual mindset is I just want to chill after work and have fun. Who cares if we win or lose it is the fun that matters. The whole "Btw I have to leave the ex fight at 9pm, me and my friends are doing a screen shot contest in Kugani then we are farming pony mounts to complete our sets." Casuals tend to focus on fluff content: Mounts, Glamours, Titles, Achievements.

The hardcore mindset is ok savage raid is coming out in 2 weeks. Does everyone have their 5 days of PTO in. We start at 8am est, break for 1 hr 12 to 1, and then raid from 1 to 5 with a break to 6 then stop at midnight. Starting Tuesday ending the following Tuesday. If anyone has an issue say something now so we can find a rep for you in the group. Hardcores tend to focus on progression. Sorta an extreme example... but you get the idea.

As for the hardcores playing and casual taking breaks.... it is the exact opposite in my experience from arr to now. Casuals and new players are the only ones with stuff to do ingame still. This game is almost purely designed for the casual weekend warrior... they are the only ones who will never run out of stuff to do.

[SenorPatty]

So...we gonna go back to OP's idea or derail fully into definitions?


I'm for having both, btw

[MariaArvana]

Not really? It's the same concept as savage. people who are capable of doing harder content get to reap the benefits of better rewards early, where those unable to complete said content can play catch-up in later content.

But the reality is, EX primals are also infinitely easier to develop than current Relic content is, which is why Relic content in SB/SHB is set back further than HW & ARR were; they require more dev time. Those normal modes are going to be in the game already on patch release; an extreme trial already has half the work done for it in which it uses the same arena, model, animations, etc as its normal equivalent; while also overlapping multiple mechanics. Relic content like Eureka/Bhulzja is much grander scope, requiring the development of an entire zone's worth of detail, multiple fates/skirmishes, models, triggers, NPCs, dialogue, story writing, etc.

Delaying an EX trial isn't suddenly going to make Relic content release earlier. It just means we have no EX trial on patch release, AND no relic content. If you want relic content to release faster, you want to ask the devs to change it back to how it was in HW/ARR: Not introducing brand new zones, Grinding old content ad nauseum to cap your tomestones 100x over to buy all of -x- number of items to upgrade. If the only actual 'content' that has to be developed for the relic is just the weapon models and quest dialogue/triggers like in HW/ARR and making it re-use all the other content in the game for it's actual battle 'content', it'll come out much sooner.

[Amnmaat]

Not really? It's the same concept as savage. people who are capable of doing harder content get to reap the benefits of better rewards early, where those unable to complete said content can play catch-up in later content.

But the reality is, EX primals are also infinitely easier to develop than current Relic content is, which is why Relic content in SB/SHB is set back further than HW & ARR were; they require more dev time. Those normal modes are going to be in the game already on patch release; an extreme trial already has half the work done for it in which it uses the same arena, model, animations, etc as its normal equivalent; while also overlapping multiple mechanics. Relic content like Eureka/Bhulzja is much grander scope, requiring the development of an entire zone's worth of detail, multiple fates/skirmishes, models, triggers, NPCs, dialogue, story writing, etc.

Delaying an EX trial isn't suddenly going to make Relic content release earlier. It just means we have no EX trial on patch release, AND no relic content. If you want relic content to release faster, you want to ask the devs to change it back to how it was in HW/ARR: Not introducing brand new zones, Grinding old content ad nauseum to cap your tomestones 100x over to buy all of -x- number of items to upgrade. If the only actual 'content' that has to be developed for the relic is just the weapon models and quest dialogue/triggers like in HW/ARR and making it re-use all the other content in the game for it's actual battle 'content', it'll come out much sooner.

Not exactly.
That's called project management and asset allocation. The relic quest project can be allocated at to be at the start of the pipeline instead of at the end, it's a matter of shifting it around. If it's not clear I can draw a picture to show how it would work as we go into the next expansion.

[Gemina]

It blows my mind how the definition of Casual, Midcore, and Hardcore has changed over the the last 16yrs...

Indeed. It would seem that those who clear the most difficult content believe they are the ones to move the goalposts. It's not something I really choose to argue against since I don't prog savage or ultimate. I can see why a savage raider would feel this way. It simplifies things to refer to all content outside current raid tier as casual, but that term has negative connotations to it that make players feel like their attempts or clears of the higher end duties that are not current to be trivial.

For players who feel that way, I wouldn't let it get to you. "Casual" in this game doesn't mean it's easy. It just means it's not the current tier of stuff that is being progressed. However, what I will say is that any content that I feel is not easy, I am also not going to approach it casually.

It would also seem that "casual" serves a double entendre. It can refer to the content, and the player. You can find casual players in highend content, and savage raiders in casual content. Then from there are these varying degrees of how casual, and how hardcore a player is. It's a bit of a spectrum that all of us lie on somewhere.