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  1. #201
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,856
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Just on a side note, I don't know why it is I have such worse experience in LFR (just in terms of completing them, not even talking about loot) compared to even new alliance raids in FFXIV. People seem to give up too easily in LFR or something, even with Determination stacks available which should make things a bit easier, or they get their one loot they wanted and then bailed..
    I think that's mostly a matter of XIV casual raids kind of splitting the difference of LFR and Normal mode in terms of the players likely to run them even -- it's the lower of two or lowest of three difficulty spans, depending on whether you call Ex Primals their own thing, as compared to the lowest of four as in WoW (Story, Normal, Extreme, Savage, equivalently) while being no harder, really, than WoW's easiest setting (LFR). The mechanics have fewer "well now I know, I guess..." one-shots but more coordination typically required, and in a subtler and more cumulative fashion. Despite this, the people you run with in LFR are those who are unwilling to do anything harder than Story mode, are painfully undergeared (especially, for anything but story mode), or are really bored (e.g. the kind who'd run normal modes after having already gotten all their weekly loot from them, and not via roulette). If you do even a mild amount of dungeon progression, for instance, LFR stands only as a niche, roll-of-the-dice alt catch-up mechanic once you've already used it to complete the MSQ. It's never really been sold as a gear source so much as just a last-resort way to see the story as it plays out via raid content. People complained they couldn't see the stories through to completion, and so they got LFR. Difficulty-wise, it's like our "normal mode" (if a bit more mechanics-laden, depending on the fight); just because it has three difficulty settings higher than it, rather than our one, doesn't mean it's going to actually be that easy.

    To put it (perhaps overly) simply, you're used to a sort of bottom-half player span, but now you're seeing a bottom-quarter player span still attempting to accomplish the same actual difficulty as done by the bottom-half content in XIV. Naturally, it's going to feel a bit more... disjointed.

    It's specifically those people who go through it weekly as if by obligation, despite it having a nearly nil chance of an upgrade, that most contribute to that "quitter" mentality, as if the run's not going perfectly, it's a waste of time for them... because they're way overgeared for story mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Anyways, I'm ok with personal loot. I just think it shouldn't have a no-gear option. There should be always gear dropped, and then you can decide if you want it or not. Also, for WoW, I wish there is a way to say I want loots for all my specs instead of just the current one.
    Same. And that would probably help the "quitter" problem quite a bit... at least until they get the loot they want.
    (1)

  2. #202
    Player

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I think that's mostly a matter of XIV casual raids kind of splitting the difference of LFR and Normal mode in terms of the players likely to run them even -- it's the lower of two or lowest of three difficulty spans, depending on whether you call Ex Primals their own thing, as compared to the lowest of four as in WoW (Story, Normal, Extreme, Savage, equivalently) while being no harder, really, than WoW's easiest setting (LFR). The mechanics have fewer "well now I know, I guess..." one-shots but more coordination typically required, and in a subtler and more cumulative fashion. Despite this, the people you run with in LFR are those who are unwilling to do anything harder than Story mode, are painfully undergeared (especially, for anything but story mode), or are really bored (e.g. the kind who'd run normal modes after having already gotten all their weekly loot from them, and not via roulette). If you do even a mild amount of dungeon progression, for instance, LFR stands only as a niche, roll-of-the-dice alt catch-up mechanic once you've already used it to complete the MSQ. It's never really been sold as a gear source so much as just a last-resort way to see the story as it plays out via raid content. People complained they couldn't see the stories through to completion, and so they got LFR. Difficulty-wise, it's like our "normal mode" (if a bit more mechanics-laden, depending on the fight); just because it has three difficulty settings higher than it, rather than our one, doesn't mean it's going to actually be that easy.

    To put it (perhaps overly) simply, you're used to a sort of bottom-half player span, but now you're seeing a bottom-quarter player span still attempting to accomplish the same actual difficulty as done by the bottom-half content in XIV. Naturally, it's going to feel a bit more... disjointed.

    It's specifically those people who go through it weekly as if by obligation, despite it having a nearly nil chance of an upgrade, that most contribute to that "quitter" mentality, as if the run's not going perfectly, it's a waste of time for them... because they're way overgeared for story mode.
    Ugh, I want to blame titanforge and world quest/emissary reward, but I foresee the problem continuing in Shadowlands. Then there's the fact that, even with 30 people and about 13 DPS spots, the two tank spots will still be the last to fill most of the times. It's kind of crazy and why I appreciate FFXIV making tanking easier even if some tank mains may not like the change.

    Same. And that would probably help the "quitter" problem quite a bit... at least until they get the loot they want.
    I hated not getting the minions in alliance raids, but maybe that's enough for people to not quit after getting their loot. And the tokens.
    (0)

  3. #203
    Player
    KalinOrthos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    558
    Character
    Kalin Orthos
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    The biggest problem with FFXIV right now, in my eyes, is the PvE healing and tanking designs and gameplay.
    • Healers actually have an incredibly robust healing kit, disregarding some trap traits you know which one I'm talking about. Unfortunately, for most of the game's content, you barely have to touch any of it, instead using exactly one ability over and over and over again, maybe interweaving a DoT every 30 seconds. As it stands, the way healing is treated is very much a shame. I would love for encounter designs to better utilize healer kits more than just a single AoE that requires a succor, helios, or medica before going back to single-target spell spam.
    • Tanks suffer from "Blue DPS" syndrome, where they play just like dumbed down DPS classes. GNB has at least a bit of uniqueness, but even then, the tank jobs don't really have any incentive to reward themselves for doing good DPS, other than having still-subpar numbers to other DPS. One of the few things I still really like in WoW design that they could take from Blizzard is the usage of active mitigation, where active offense and damage will actually supplement their mitigation in more than just a tiny heal. For instance, brewmasters get a reduced cooldown of their mitigation buffs for using their high damage skills and filler. Something that gives a higher reward for actively DPSing would help make tanks feel a bit more whole. Also, give Warriors some love ffs.
    (6)

  4. #204
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    Not the game itself, but forum moderation.

    It could make such a difference having an active moderator or two that speak up, enforce the rules, observe conversations and step in where necessary. The best forums I've been on are ones where moderators have a real presence.
    Fully agree on that too.

    Honestly I dont understand the priorities sometimes...people are getting bans because they post otter pics but you have some trolls running around causing trouble with their threads and they are still there..heck you have quite some really passive aggressive people who can still do that without any consequences. But otters are seemingly too much...

    When the Viera thread just disappeared I truly believed that they just deleted it and that was making me angry..until suddenly its there again, without any hints on what has happened..
    (3)

  5. #205
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,856
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    Not the game itself, but forum moderation.

    It could make such a difference having an active moderator or two that speak up, enforce the rules, observe conversations and step in where necessary. The best forums I've been on are ones where moderators have a real presence.

    Warn people that a discussion is getting out of hand and that they should be careful.

    Lock duplicate threads when there's already an active one on the same topic.

    Recognise patterns of behaviour instead of moderating individual posts in isolation. We can all identify certain recurring trolls, so why is it so hard to shut them down on sight?
    I have mixed feeling on this.

    Anyone remember the 1000+ posts Summoner thread here in the NA forums? I still have yet to learn why that was shut down. So many good concrete and detailed ideas, instantly purged. The Monk thread before that? Purged. ...And then we're told we don't provide detailed feedback or scatter it across too many threads.

    Heck, the iconic "WAR/DRK" conflict likewise, in just a small port of total posts in each, has managed to shut down several otherwise constructive threads.

    Likewise, I'd rather allow for satirical posts, trolling or otherwise, than censor certain posters "on sight". If they haven't done anything bad enough to be banned according to a reasonable evaluation of the TOA, then why should they be censored? I, for one, enjoy the occasional Titan-man/fist/bro post, and the discussion they prompt are more often pertinent than not, even if for seemingly the wrong reasons.

    Personally, I think just improving on the forum infrastructure -- similar to as was done for Overwatch's forums or the like to make replies and relevant new posts, etc., more visible to users and allow for varyingly more general or specific (i.e. more "threaded") communication -- would do far more than more community "management".
    (5)

  6. #206
    Player
    Alaray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    624
    Character
    Vevri Arctyria
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    I primarily wish the game had more to do outside of Raiding, for max-level battle content that has some tie in with character progression. Eureka/Relics in general usually fill the void somewhat, though it happens so late where it'd feel a lot better to have content like that (or similar) earlier on.

    Something to grind for and work towards over time, that feels like it feeds into the character somewhat.

    Maybe something that lets you gear up alt jobs a bit better, or something, since it feels like it takes so long to finish out a set for 1 job, and then subsequent jobs, which sort of makes the "Job Swapping" aspect of the game feel almost inconsequential.

    I'm also not a fan of how homogenized classes are becoming.
    (2)

  7. #207
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,045
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Likewise, I'd rather allow for satirical posts, trolling or otherwise, than censor certain posters "on sight". If they haven't done anything bad enough to be banned according to a reasonable evaluation of the TOA, then why should they be censored? I, for one, enjoy the occasional Titan-man/fist/bro post, and the discussion they prompt are more often pertinent than not, even if for seemingly the wrong reasons.
    The thing is, it's not "occasional". It fills up the forum. He starts multiple threads pushing his agenda-of-the-day and bumps others. It clogs up the forum and the discussion revolves around him.

    Just now, multiple old threads bumped by him. At least one was previously bumped by his previous account, and another was started by him. He stirs up old arguments and negative threads that ran their course and went quiet years ago. He's digging them up systematically and it keeps the forum boiling in a stream of complaint threads - and instead of these multiple discussions on the same theme taking place one-by-one over time, now they're all bumped up together. It looks like everyone is complaining at once, and it drowns out the actual current discussions.

    It's disruptive posting and an active human moderator can see that, where a "no single post is offensive" approach leaves him free to carry on.

    And where the discussion is interesting despite the trolly start? It's still just... it's not someone asking a genuine question that you can have a conversation about. The respondents are genuine and that's where something interesting can happen - but the original post is still insincere and trying to start an argument.
    (9)
    Last edited by Iscah; 09-22-2020 at 10:49 AM.

  8. #208
    Player
    Kaliesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,034
    Character
    Adrian Gungnir
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Few things I can think of regarding this game -

    1) There needs to be more content for non-raiders; personally I've gotten to the point of being so burned out from Savage Raiding because of the ridiculous mechanics of the season that all 8 players must master because if 1 dies everyone dies; Punishment is fine all, but when you have to face the usual consequence over and over and over and over and over and over and over....and OVER.... for the past couple years well it stops being fun and more like a chore. When the savage raids for Shadowbringers came out that I just didn't have it in me to really push anymore; I just gave up at that point.

    It wasn't the constant death that got me down, but other multiple problems that come with those raids and just wasn't worth the stress anymore.

    I just want some alternative challenges at this point that doesn't involve savage raiding if I want to take a long break from savage battles and Extreme Battles, but said content is well...lacking.

    Though there is some content (currently), but it ends as soon as it begins and then we're back to the daily raid grind for X-Item of the season.

    I just hope that Gunnhildr thing will be the cure I need because I desperately want a reason to keep playing this game on the daily rather than just on occasion.

    2) As for Dungeons...I'm just not feeling it anymore; said content feels really hollow at times even all the way back to 2.0. So many things you could do with this dungeon content, but it has remained untouched. The Ivalice and Nier raids were probably the best I actually liked compared to the rest of the dungeons (except that one alliance dungeon with Yiazmat; those battles were stretched out but that may have changed recently).

    3) The Eureka Dungeon was a grand idea due to the difficulty, it sucks they haven't really played around with that more.


    Idk maybe I'm just burned out at this point.


    Oh to Alleo regarding otter pictures, and among other things. This forum system seems really paranoid regarding anything copyrighted though I'm just taking a guess here.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kaliesto; 09-22-2020 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #209
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,045
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    There was a "plea to the moderators" thread this morning regarding the spam-bumping of old threads. It is now deleted while the relentless bumping continues.
    (2)

  10. #210
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,856
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    The thing is, it's not "occasional". It fills up the forum. He starts multiple threads pushing his agenda-of-the-day and bumps others. It clogs up the forum and the discussion revolves around him.
    Then, ignore him?

    If someone is so clearly cut and dried as to obviously be a troll in every post, we can't say we aren't knowingly complicit in allowing his disruption when we respond to him. He's either so painfully obvious as to need to be effectively banned, and we're half the problem, or he really is a mixed bag as, sure enough, hasn't broken the rules.

    He's allowed the same posts per day per account as everyone else. If he, triple-account as he may be, singlehandedly has that huge an impact, it's either because people are more than willing to "be baited", forum activity is just that little (at which point we should probably ask... why do so few people see any reason to use the forums?), or this place's infrastructure (and people's usage habits) are far too channeled towards and around New Posts.

    The respondents are genuine and that's where something interesting can happen
    And, with your suggested censorship, there would be no such response, genuine or otherwise, all while giving all necessary excuse for the CMs to silently purge unofficial community leaders or the most trusted and informed job spokesmen and shut down threads that would otherwise be too detailed, concrete, or constructive to blame the playerbase for not properly communicating. That may seem a "slippery slope", and yet we've already seen the latter since late ARR. (Thread contains sizeable constructive value. Certain posts are removed, including from people no one remembers speaking out of line. People ask why they were removed. The thread is shut down. Yoshida then blames the community for being unclear or silent when some of the very things those threads detailed would be poor implementation are then released.)

    Given how we've been treated thus far, that's therefore not a slope I want to start down except perhaps by the most tentative and explicit steps.

    On the other hand, I can easily see tremendous advantage coming from improved forum features. Just think of how much good a curated thread does (where the OP comes back daily to quote in brief each of the most-liked suggestions and "big questions" so they're immediately visible from the first page). Think of how much good that does to keep discussion on track. We could have that for every lengthy thread, almost automatically.
    (1)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-22-2020 at 12:45 PM.

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