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  1. #1
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    The problem is WoW's raids are weekly-locked (at least on LFR).
    Yet, that's also how Savage works, until unlocked in preparation for the next tier.

    I could go either way, personally. I like that I'm guaranteed one (and to an extent, like that it will be only ever one) piece of gear at the end of the week, and that I can rerun for more tries towards the upgrade I want. At the same time, though, it gets seriously frustrating to have nothing you need ever drop for the 4th, 5th, 6th Puppet's Bunker run that week, which is itself an issue Personal Loot can solve (i.e. by trimming duplicates from the loot table). There's also just the idea of it feeling like an actual raid, with actual boss loot, rather than just a means to a week-by-week ends, though that's meant increasingly less to me over the years.

    Both have issues of feast-or-famine, luck-or-unluck. Savage is just as varied as WoW raids; a quickly progressing group technically may clear the last boss before you've gotten anything. In WoW's case it'd be due merely to extreme personal unluck, while in XIV it's more like luck deferred (someone else got their marginal upgrade instead of you getting your BiS legs). Similarly, one could go through story-mode (LFR) raid tier for the week and get loot from half the 12-15 bosses, or just 1, or potentially even none (incredibly unlikely, but technically possible). In XIV's casual raids, you could go several runs before one of the pieces you want finally drops, let alone is rolled high enough for you to finally stop grinding.

    If I had my druthers, I'd use a hybrid of Personal Loot and the "One Item Per Week" system. You'd get your option of one item per boss, tailored optionally to each (1) your job ("currently usable only"), (2) your bank of jobs ("usable only"), and/or (3) your existing gear ("upgrades only"), and could just keep passing until you get what you want, but there'd be more normalization.
    (1)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Similarly, one could go through story-mode (LFR) raid tier for the week and get loot from half the 12-15 bosses, or just 1, or potentially even none (incredibly unlikely, but technically possible). In XIV's casual raids, you could go several runs before one of the pieces you want finally drops, let alone is rolled high enough for you to finally stop grinding.
    Well, in my experience so far in both SB and ShB vs BfA. If I were to start at the weekly reset, I would usually be done in an hour for normal raids, or at the worst before the daily reset on Tuesday. Meanwhile, most weeks, I have gotten no gear (not even ones I could trade) from all the LFR wings. Of course, it's RNG, so technically, I could've gotten gears at every boss. But just from these past two-three years, the RNG in FFXIV just happens to be on my side more than in WoW. Especially with ShB's loot system, it is much easier to get the loot I want, plus having to only focus on the boss makes it faster to replay.

    Just on a side note, I don't know why it is I have such worse experience in LFR (just in terms of completing them, not even talking about loot) compared to even new alliance raids in FFXIV. People seem to give up too easily in LFR or something, even with Determination stacks available which should make things a bit easier, or they get their one loot they wanted and then bailed.

    Anyways, I'm ok with personal loot. I just think it shouldn't have a no-gear option. There should be always gear dropped, and then you can decide if you want it or not. Also, for WoW, I wish there is a way to say I want loots for all my specs instead of just the current one.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Just on a side note, I don't know why it is I have such worse experience in LFR (just in terms of completing them, not even talking about loot) compared to even new alliance raids in FFXIV. People seem to give up too easily in LFR or something, even with Determination stacks available which should make things a bit easier, or they get their one loot they wanted and then bailed..
    I think that's mostly a matter of XIV casual raids kind of splitting the difference of LFR and Normal mode in terms of the players likely to run them even -- it's the lower of two or lowest of three difficulty spans, depending on whether you call Ex Primals their own thing, as compared to the lowest of four as in WoW (Story, Normal, Extreme, Savage, equivalently) while being no harder, really, than WoW's easiest setting (LFR). The mechanics have fewer "well now I know, I guess..." one-shots but more coordination typically required, and in a subtler and more cumulative fashion. Despite this, the people you run with in LFR are those who are unwilling to do anything harder than Story mode, are painfully undergeared (especially, for anything but story mode), or are really bored (e.g. the kind who'd run normal modes after having already gotten all their weekly loot from them, and not via roulette). If you do even a mild amount of dungeon progression, for instance, LFR stands only as a niche, roll-of-the-dice alt catch-up mechanic once you've already used it to complete the MSQ. It's never really been sold as a gear source so much as just a last-resort way to see the story as it plays out via raid content. People complained they couldn't see the stories through to completion, and so they got LFR. Difficulty-wise, it's like our "normal mode" (if a bit more mechanics-laden, depending on the fight); just because it has three difficulty settings higher than it, rather than our one, doesn't mean it's going to actually be that easy.

    To put it (perhaps overly) simply, you're used to a sort of bottom-half player span, but now you're seeing a bottom-quarter player span still attempting to accomplish the same actual difficulty as done by the bottom-half content in XIV. Naturally, it's going to feel a bit more... disjointed.

    It's specifically those people who go through it weekly as if by obligation, despite it having a nearly nil chance of an upgrade, that most contribute to that "quitter" mentality, as if the run's not going perfectly, it's a waste of time for them... because they're way overgeared for story mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Anyways, I'm ok with personal loot. I just think it shouldn't have a no-gear option. There should be always gear dropped, and then you can decide if you want it or not. Also, for WoW, I wish there is a way to say I want loots for all my specs instead of just the current one.
    Same. And that would probably help the "quitter" problem quite a bit... at least until they get the loot they want.
    (1)

  4. #4
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    Jul 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I think that's mostly a matter of XIV casual raids kind of splitting the difference of LFR and Normal mode in terms of the players likely to run them even -- it's the lower of two or lowest of three difficulty spans, depending on whether you call Ex Primals their own thing, as compared to the lowest of four as in WoW (Story, Normal, Extreme, Savage, equivalently) while being no harder, really, than WoW's easiest setting (LFR). The mechanics have fewer "well now I know, I guess..." one-shots but more coordination typically required, and in a subtler and more cumulative fashion. Despite this, the people you run with in LFR are those who are unwilling to do anything harder than Story mode, are painfully undergeared (especially, for anything but story mode), or are really bored (e.g. the kind who'd run normal modes after having already gotten all their weekly loot from them, and not via roulette). If you do even a mild amount of dungeon progression, for instance, LFR stands only as a niche, roll-of-the-dice alt catch-up mechanic once you've already used it to complete the MSQ. It's never really been sold as a gear source so much as just a last-resort way to see the story as it plays out via raid content. People complained they couldn't see the stories through to completion, and so they got LFR. Difficulty-wise, it's like our "normal mode" (if a bit more mechanics-laden, depending on the fight); just because it has three difficulty settings higher than it, rather than our one, doesn't mean it's going to actually be that easy.

    To put it (perhaps overly) simply, you're used to a sort of bottom-half player span, but now you're seeing a bottom-quarter player span still attempting to accomplish the same actual difficulty as done by the bottom-half content in XIV. Naturally, it's going to feel a bit more... disjointed.

    It's specifically those people who go through it weekly as if by obligation, despite it having a nearly nil chance of an upgrade, that most contribute to that "quitter" mentality, as if the run's not going perfectly, it's a waste of time for them... because they're way overgeared for story mode.
    Ugh, I want to blame titanforge and world quest/emissary reward, but I foresee the problem continuing in Shadowlands. Then there's the fact that, even with 30 people and about 13 DPS spots, the two tank spots will still be the last to fill most of the times. It's kind of crazy and why I appreciate FFXIV making tanking easier even if some tank mains may not like the change.

    Same. And that would probably help the "quitter" problem quite a bit... at least until they get the loot they want.
    I hated not getting the minions in alliance raids, but maybe that's enough for people to not quit after getting their loot. And the tokens.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    KalinOrthos's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
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    558
    Character
    Kalin Orthos
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    The biggest problem with FFXIV right now, in my eyes, is the PvE healing and tanking designs and gameplay.
    • Healers actually have an incredibly robust healing kit, disregarding some trap traits you know which one I'm talking about. Unfortunately, for most of the game's content, you barely have to touch any of it, instead using exactly one ability over and over and over again, maybe interweaving a DoT every 30 seconds. As it stands, the way healing is treated is very much a shame. I would love for encounter designs to better utilize healer kits more than just a single AoE that requires a succor, helios, or medica before going back to single-target spell spam.
    • Tanks suffer from "Blue DPS" syndrome, where they play just like dumbed down DPS classes. GNB has at least a bit of uniqueness, but even then, the tank jobs don't really have any incentive to reward themselves for doing good DPS, other than having still-subpar numbers to other DPS. One of the few things I still really like in WoW design that they could take from Blizzard is the usage of active mitigation, where active offense and damage will actually supplement their mitigation in more than just a tiny heal. For instance, brewmasters get a reduced cooldown of their mitigation buffs for using their high damage skills and filler. Something that gives a higher reward for actively DPSing would help make tanks feel a bit more whole. Also, give Warriors some love ffs.
    (6)