FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

[tymora]

different kind of mmos. In fact since you seem to have forgotten, ff14 1.0 had the ff11 style and it was one of the major factors that it flopped, it was only after that, that they took inspiration from Wow that 2.0 came to fruition..

1.0 didn't flop because it was FF11 style. It flopped because of other game design flaws, none of which were in FFXI.

1. Skilling up was random, which was retarded - 4 people go in with the same level, 1 person can hit level cap while the rest didn't progress much
2. No central market place - We had to spend hours looking MANUALLY through every retainer in the bazaar...sheesh
3. Super laggy UI
4. Oddball recipe ingredient requirements - A level 10 recipe needing an ingredient made by another craft at Level 20.
5. Laggy servers - Because all in Japan.
+ Other weird gameplay elements that were just super inconvenient and don't add much to gameplay.

I do enjoy certain aspects of 1.0 though.
1. Random boss skills save for a few triggered by HP %.
2. Because there were no local servers, I enjoyed interacting with people from all over the world, lag notwithstanding.
3. Dungeon speed runs for better rewards
4. Able to change jobs in Dungeons + Mobs with damage resistance - Change to mnk to turn skeletons into power than to slashing to cut through plant mobs...etc
5. Cross class skills
6. Crafting can level up your damage dealt (forces everyone to craft). Some people don't like it but I do.

[Penthea]

6. Crafting can level up your damage dealt (forces everyone to craft). Some people don't like it but I do.

That appears strange to me. I can't fathom the logic behind "I can craft really well therefore I do more damage with a combat class". It doesn't make sense to me. How did this particular mechanic work?

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

different kind of mmos. In fact since you seem to have forgotten, ff14 1.0 had the ff11 style and it was one of the major factors that it flopped, it was only after that, that they took inspiration from Wow that 2.0 came to fruition.
Also i read most of it, the only thing that stack to me was how you compare it to ff1 and ff13. especially saying ff14 is also linear and ff13 side questing was more rewarding.
So ill say again what i said, youre comparing apples to oranges and finding the later inferior.

Ya because they had horrible advertising is really the only reason it flopped hell I didn't even know the game existed until a day they removed it.. and I would have gladly played what saw on it over 14s honestly.

alot of people didn't even know 1.0 even existed so .. saying its a flop had nothing to do with systems they just didn't spread it around properly .... all things considered it looks way better than current ffxiv outside "graphic upgrades"

[Penthea]

They like the game but don't agree with the direction and that is ok.

I struggle to believe that they like the game. I have repeatedly seen them essentially say they want FFXIV to be FXI-2. XIV and XI are completely different games. It's like complaining about how FFXV isn't FFX.

They post here to see if other people feel the same way and or hoping the devs see's it.From what I gathered its a mix bag of nuts honestly. Some people agree, some don't, but regardless its always good to see what people like and don't like imo. I don't think its any different from any one else posting the same thing over in any of the other forums here. But then again its the forums. I see the same people on twitter post the same thing over and over lol.

It's one thing to see people criticise the same handful of things over and over again, and it's another thing when a person repeatedly criticises so many aspects of the game that if the changes they wanted were introduced the game would become unrecognisable.

Ya because they had horrible advertising is really the only reason it flopped hell I didn't even know the game existed until a day they removed it.. and I would have gladly played what saw on it over 14s honestly.

alot of people didn't even know 1.0 even existed so .. saying its a flop had nothing to do with systems they just didn't spread it around properly .... all things considered it looks way better than current ffxiv outside "graphic upgrades"

Uhhh...1.0 flopped hugely because it was borderline unplayable for a long time. There were massive server issues and the game itself crashed a lot due to demanding far too much from hardware and for being badly optimised in general. No matter how great a game itself is, if players cannot play it then they're not going to like it.

Furthermore there were quite a lot of issues with the design itself because SE literally ignored player feedback during testing. The ui had too many dialogue boxes to go through to do simple tasks, the combat was clunky, gathering was almost purely rng (because for some reason the devs thought it would be great if players didn't know what they were gathering???) the story wasn't fleshed out at all (which is a crime for a FF game!), navigation was awful due to zone and map design...I could go on for a long time. It's a very long list that is very well documented.

SE wanted to create a successor to XI with 1.0 XIV but it failed miserably because the game was poorly made and was nowhere close to being a finished product. It was a controversial game right from launch, and the reception was so bad that SE was in danger of falling apart as a whole. I know people who adored XI who tried 1.0 XIV and they all agreed it was awful, even if you were lucky enough for the servers to stay online or for the game not to crash. The improvements to 1.0 came after SE removed the original 1.0 staff and replaced them with a different team lead by Yoshida. However the devs and Yoshida saw that the game was so badly made even down to its foundations that the only way to save it was to scrap it, which is why 2.0 was released as a different game, not as an expansion.

Sure a lack of advertising did hurt 1.0 XIV but what hurt it the most was the sheer arrogance of the original team who knowingly released a horribly made unfinished product built upon ignoring player feedback, and they were expecting to ride the prestigious Final Fantasy brand to success. Unsurprisingly this mindset hugely backfired.

Anyway...would you even want to heavily advertise a disaster of a game that put your company at risk of dissolving? No, better to stick to focusing on the die-hard fans who stayed and were willing to provide feedback to lead the game to a better place. That's what SE did, and it was a success.

[Morningstar1337]

FFXI is a MMORPG , FFXIV is a MMORPG, thats apples to apples.

I don't think that is exactly the case. XIV is more of a "theme park" MMO in the vein of WOW (one of Yoshida's more noted inspirations for ARR) Whereas XI predates WOW and by extension the themepark concept. 1.0 (which you previously discussed) and the Eureka content seemed a little more closer to XI. From what I gathered, Themepark MMOs seem to value convenience a lot more than XI which seemed to take a slightly more realistic (as you are surrounded by multiple high level enemies at most times, questing as more esoteric, arguably deleveling, etc) and grindy approach to adventuring, as well as a more lidded eye on balance regarding jobs (in fact i kinda wonder of the concept of QoL features would be anathema in XI's heyday).

And considering that WOW has been going fairly strong for 1.5 decades (AFAIK, could be longer), and that XIV also saw success with ARR onward. I take away that there is a bigger market for more easier/casual/convenient MMOs than more "hardcore"/"inconvenient" MMOs such as XI. And SE seemed to had noticed since AFAIK, XI was adding QoL and streamlining features since I think Abyssea.

I don't think either game is perfect and that the devs could stand to share notes, but I also don't they are as 1:1 as you think they are.

[Daniolaut]

I don't think that is exactly the case. XIV is more of a "theme park" MMO in the vein of WOW (one of Yoshida's more noted inspirations for ARR) Whereas XI predates WOW and by extension the themepark concept. 1.0 (which you previously discussed) and the Eureka content seemed a little more closer to XI. From what I gathered, Themepark MMOs seem to value convenience a lot more than XI which seemed to take a slightly more realistic (as you are surrounded by multiple high level enemies at most times, questing as more esoteric, arguably deleveling, etc) and grindy approach to adventuring, as well as a more lidded eye on balance regarding jobs (in fact i kinda wonder of the concept of QoL features would be anathema in XI's heyday).

And considering that WOW has been going fairly strong for 1.5 decades (AFAIK, could be longer), and that XIV also saw success with ARR onward. I take away that there is a bigger market for more easier/casual/convenient MMOs than more "hardcore"/"inconvenient" MMOs such as XI. And SE seemed to had noticed since AFAIK, XI was adding QoL and streamlining features since I think Abyssea.

I don't think either game is perfect and that the devs could stand to share notes, but I also don't they are as 1:1 as you think they are.

See this is the type of response I can highly respect. I dont need people to agree with me. If everyone always responded like this I wouldnt have to add "spice" to any of my comments or threads or anything.

Anyway to respond to you.

I am aware the differences of XIV and XI. If you read more deeply you could see that I'm not looking for XIV to be like XI. I tried to use examples across the entire franchise to show what I'm looking for.

I used XI in the chocobo example because in 2.0 things were a bit better. I'm seeing with each expansion they keep watering everything down, and thats whats bothering me.

I personally feel 5.0 is lacking in both quality and quantity. Sure I appreciate the changes such as flying in 2.0 zones. But I almost feel like being able to fly in 2.0 zones, magnifies how small 2.0 zones are and how bland 3.0+ zones are.

Again, I pointed out my appreciation for the Lochs. While its not the best looking zone, in terms of engagement, its on the upper end, even without anything being "added" to that zone. Although I could argue that the "vendors" being added give reason to go there.

(Edit: And I have been seeing them adding reasons to go to other zones. This is something that is small, but I appreciate. Like adding another reason to go to Idylshire, for the Unreal stuff. I quite dislike how you can literally stand in 1 spot in the game, and accomplish just about everything. I dont really feel like that is an "adventure. " I understand the "convenience," but I thought thats what teleporting and flying and everything else was for.)

I dont think XI or XIV are perfect. I dont think any game is "perfect." But I do feel XI is much closer than XIV. Are there things about XI that I dislike? Absolutely and I have a thread on the XI forums expressing it. But I also do praise the trust system in another thread, effectively "debunking" my previous "disappointed" thread.

The thing with XI is I feel they have the features XIV has, but do it better. Like the glamour system in XI is completely unrestricted. You can wear full AF gear from a completely different job. You can wear BLM AF as a MNK. Not the greatest of things, but the point there is, you can wear anything as any job. So I find it odd that a game released 11 years prior (and no I am not counting 1.0... this game released 11 years after XI.)

XI and WoW are both successful, and for different reasons, and have a different crowd. I dont want XIV to be WoW or XI. I want it be FFXIV, and I feel it can be, with a few minor tweaks such as adding a few cutscenes, adding a few UI features, and not releasing incomplete content (the new races and jobs) and going back on statements (saying BLU is overpowered, even though they nerfed it and its not overpowered, as well as tying housing to the sub. I'm mentioning that twice, not because its a sticking point, its just one easy example of the actual points i'm trying to make.) Probably fewer quests, so the quests are higher quality. (On the topic of questing, they have been improving with 5.0. Not everything is bland. But they can go do better. Easily.)

So to sum up what I'm saying.

I'd like a cleaner more customizable UI, probably fewer quests, so the questing is more engaging. Gathering nodes closer together, similarly how they were in 2.0, in fact a lot of things more like they were in 2.0. I felt 2.0 was about where the game was going in the right direction in terms of mechanics and content features. The story has gotten better since 3.0, but I feel everything else has been going downhill both in terms of quality and quantity. Thats the overarching statement.

[DPZ2]

I'd like a cleaner more customizable UI, probably fewer quests, so the questing is more engaging. Gathering nodes closer together, similarly how they were in 2.0, in fact a lot of things more like they were in 2.0. I felt 2.0 was about where the game was going in the right direction in terms of mechanics and content features. The story has gotten better since 3.0, but I feel everything else has been doing downhill both in terms of quality and quantity. Thats the overaching statement.

You know, if you had just limited your original post to these 5 sentences, you might have actually had a bunch of folks agreeing with you on some of them.

Instead, we got a Manifesto about why XIV isn't as good as XI in your eyes, or at least that's what I took away from that wall of text.

Your diatribe about zone change blackouts is noted, but I learned what was REALLY going on behind those apparently seamless scenes in 1.0. Frankly. I prefer the blackout.

As far as your current points:

Your UI is eminently customizable, although it would appear you haven't taken the time to perform that customization. It's a matter of taste as to whether it could be 'cleaner'.

Gathering nodes weren't all that close in 2.0 (yeah, I've been leveling alts of late) and it's as much a pain to get between nodes as it was back in 2014, but without the inconvenience of the slow-walk between those nodes (prior to 5.0) when you were stealthing so you didn't get killed by mobs. With flight, the 3.0+ areas are closer and avoid the mobs.

They've reduced the number of quests you need to finish in the 2.x storyline, and pretty much eliminated the need to do side-quests. That should be a plus in your eyes.

Mechanics in 2.0 are changed in 3.0+ for balance against the newer, harder-hitting open-world mobs and duty finder instances, as well as because it would have been extremely boring to be stuck with the rotations you used in ARR for the next 5 years. You may not like the changes, but that doesn't mean that 2.x was the end-and-be-all of this MMO experience.

As far as content -- you got 50 levels dumped on you, with two more years of content before the expansion. There HAD to be something for you to do once you've hit max level, or the MMO would have died a quick death in 2013. Most of that content HAD to be created and/or designed pretty much before 2.0 actually went on sale. It is pretty admirable for an MMO to have any kind of content schedule these days, even if it is not the content you desire.

[Gothicshark]

FFXI is a MMORPG , FFXIV is a MMORPG, thats apples to apples..

2nd generation MMORPG vs 4th Generation MMORPG.

That is apples and oranges. One game is lucky to still be online, and the other is in the top 4 most played current MMOs. If you love FFXI than play it, but don't come here and complain that this isn't a 20-year-old game.

[Psytic]

Its unfortunate that the wording of the title will bring out all the white knights when there's solid points in this post. I 100% agree that the open world leveling feels like something Circa 2000 and needs work. Its one of the largest turn-offs to new players. Most people rush past it via potd because its just not a good expiernace.

The world is actually extremely bland he's right. Some of that may be due to memory limitation on PS4 they can't add too many varied objects etc. but the answer to that is to make more smaller zones with more unique features. We dont need large swaths of barren red sand desert nothing going on. Repeated rock wall textures. Its boring. The ARR zones actually seemed to have more unique map features so it seems to coincide with the addition of flying that they felt they needed to make large zones but couldn't fill them with anything but repeated rocks and trees due to said limitations.

The game is fun but I have to agree open world needs more effort. Look at a Guild Wars 2 zone on a much older Direct X 9 engine and you'll see the difference in artistic creativity on a much worse engine.

[Razard]

Its unfortunate that the wording of the title will bring out all the """"""""""white knights"""""""""" when there's solid points in this post.

Then maybe TC should learn how to communicate his point without resorting to shrieking melodrama.

Also, classy.