Mentors are toxic omg

[EmmetOtter]

i met many defensive, cannot-take-criticism kinda players a lot.

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

[PerrinTaveren]

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

You can give advice without shaming anyone. Also i am not "punishing" anyone. And "always praise someone in public" sounds like petting someone in the head while they are burning a house. If there is something wrong, there is something wrong. But i don't go and punish or shame anyone.

Also you contradict yourself by giving me advice publicly.

I made my point in my post, not gonna extend it because it is going to go somewhere else. It is sad that after you read my post, all you got was i am shaming people publicly.

[EmmetOtter]

What I got from your post is that you took on a tough job, and that says something good about you, and you became disillusioned, frustrated, and burnt out. Between what you said and my own experience giving/receiving advice, I concluded you are repeating common communication mistakes that so many others are making and its possible that things could have turned out much better. I'm not saying, "you are the common denominator" so much as "your approach is the common denominator".

A mentor, here or elsewhere, requires you to have great subject matter knowledge (which SE requires) and know how to communicate in a variety of situations (which SE does not require). Most of us only know how to give advice in a calm, cool and collected context when you can say almost anything in any way and it will be well received. Communicating in a crisis is profoundly different and people just don't know how to handle that unless they've had some training or great role models. When failure has already occurred, everyone's adrenaline levels are up, activating their "fight or flight" modes (to a degree), what worked in a calm situation can be seen as a personal attack and backfire spectacularly.

Those many, many, many "backfired spectacularly" moments have left their mark.

"Praise in public, criticize/punish in private" isn't something I invented, its been taught in management and leadership courses for a long time (I learned in college in the 1980's). Its a very well known principle.

I did a poor job communicating it.
1. It's not really "never ever". its a "rule" that allows for exceptions. The "never ever" was an attempt at emphasis.

2. I said "you" and re-reading that, what I intended as a generalized "you" (all mentors/advice-givers) instead came across as calling you out.

Following this principle is at least one of the things you should consider. If improving your communication abilities matter to you, do your own research (not everyone agrees with the above), think critically and make your own decisions on the matter.

People should learn to take advice

I agree. Looking at you.

Hopefully if you chose to walk this road again, you will be better prepared and have a much better experience.

[MagicAura]

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

I'm sorry but you are missing the point here. What you are suggesting is possible for players without the mentor status when running normal dungeons. Avoid public humiliation and shaming and all that by correcting arbitrarily someone mid-run. Wait till the end of the dungeon, etc. I get that.

But when it comes to mentors and extreme content, they are there to give advice and try to make things run smoothly. That's why you'll find a mentor in all those extreme trials. If people perceive polite advice as public shaming then the problem is with them and not with the mentor that is trying to help along a flawed run. If you are 45 minutes into an extreme trial and as a mentor you don't try to help the people who are doing it wrong, then for me that's a fail on you. There is also no alternative. People won't learn as if by magic, they need someone to tell them what's wrong with an extremely hard version of content or abandon the content entirely.

Polite advice is not shaming. Or rather it can be but it depends on how the advice is given and what words are used. If shaming happens, then that's a different issue entirely. But what you suggest is not blanket advice and shouldn't be used as such.

[Ayuhra]

One thing to keep in mind is even if someone snaps at you for giving them advice, they might still take advice to heart.

Ego and pride prevents them from saying they made a mistake in the moment.

Not arguing that this is a pleasant response to deal with...just, keep giving advice if someone seems like they need it. Politely, of course.

[HeulGDarian]

One thing to keep in mind is even if someone snaps at you for giving them advice, they might still take advice to heart.

Ego and pride prevents them from saying they made a mistake in the moment.

Not arguing that this is a pleasant response to deal with...just, keep giving advice if someone seems like they need it. Politely, of course.

tsunderes?

[Kahnom]

tsunderes?

Ha ha ha ha !!!

[Ezlin]

One thing to keep in mind is even if someone snaps at you for giving them advice, they might still take advice to heart.

Ego and pride prevents them from saying they made a mistake in the moment.

Not arguing that this is a pleasant response to deal with...just, keep giving advice if someone seems like they need it. Politely, of course.

No. Doesn't matter if you phrase it politely. If they make it clear, by being rude no less, that they don't want your advice and you continue to give it then they can (and some will) report you.

Just leave the duty. After all, it's a difference in play style. They can't force you anymore than you can force them so there's no point in continuing.

[Aurelius2625]

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

How about no? It's not "Shaming" it's "we literally won't clear this if you keep doing these things".

Dude, grow up. Be an adult. Be a man/woman. If you are PLAYING WRONG in a TEAM GAME and your TEAM needs you to DO BETTER and someone is TELLING YOU HOW, you should do that.

It's not SHAMING. Public shaming by telling you how to dps/heal/tank? No. Absolutely not. That's not shaming. That's giving advice.

"Hey moron, do this instead you brainlet" is toxic.... "Hey man, use one tank cooldown per pull, and if the mobs are still alive, use reprisal or arms length when they are up, or your personal cooldown" is NOT SHAMING.

Have skin that is thicker than wet tissue. There are people who will tell me what I am doing wrong, it's okay. I usually read and ask questions in The Balance discord so I'm usually at the top of my game anyways...but for specific things I will ask or be told about.

[Eriane_Elis]

How about no? It's not "Shaming" it's "we literally won't clear this if you keep doing these things".

Dude, grow up. Be an adult. Be a man/woman. If you are PLAYING WRONG in a TEAM GAME and your TEAM needs you to DO BETTER and someone is TELLING YOU HOW, you should do that.

It's not SHAMING. Public shaming by telling you how to dps/heal/tank? No. Absolutely not. That's not shaming. That's giving advice.

"Hey moron, do this instead you brainlet" is toxic.... "Hey man, use one tank cooldown per pull, and if the mobs are still alive, use reprisal or arms length when they are up, or your personal cooldown" is NOT SHAMING.

Have skin that is thicker than wet tissue. There are people who will tell me what I am doing wrong, it's okay. I usually read and ask questions in The Balance discord so I'm usually at the top of my game anyways...but for specific things I will ask or be told about.

Everything you said is correct. But, SE is getting scared, same with Blizzard with how the minority of Karens that exist have screechingly loud voices. It only takes 1 Karen to go to the media with a twisted view about how a game is creating toxic people or is racist, or is whatever other -ist there is. Blizzard removed the "b" word (might get banned for saying here) because they claim it's offensive. Huh? SE is trying to make FF14 a "safe place" to play the game but it continues to promote the ideology that people are too fragile to accept a criticism or voice for improvement. IMO they should grow some skin because it will continue to trickle down until at some point we will have only 1 emote to communicate with each other and it's a heart emote and maybe then, it might be removed given enough time.