PL Woes

[Xoo]

Correct both are at fault.

But blindly blaming PL when its not the problem is rather pointless. I know people who PL'd who are very good at that jobs. At the same time I know people who didn't PL who are horrible. When you go with a PUG there is always a chance that you will get at least 1 bad person. Try to teach them. If the refuse to learn. You've done what you can, kick/blist and leave them be. That's all you need to do. You don't need to blame PL, Obama, or anyone else but the player for not learning their role.

The point I'm getting at is that some players need a hard supplementation to their general lack of skill at the game. This battle system, which requires little more than, again, Curaga and Stoneskin along with the potential for entirely skipping mid-game content through the back-alley of PL teaches them little more than those few tactics which otherwise might not even need explaining at such a critical time as during a major battle.

Even then, if they are so bad at what they do, the community would collectively get to know them as sub-par through their mid-game and would have otherwise known what to expect. Something that is very hard to derive from a player whose necessary skills for survival are so limited as to 2-3 actions, given that they don't opt out of completely to be powerleveled.

[NoctisUmbra]

The point I'm getting at is that some players need a hard supplementation to their general lack of skill at the game. This battle system, which requires little more than, again, Curaga and Stoneskin along with the potential for entirely skipping mid-game content through the back-alley of PL teaches them little more than those few tactics which otherwise might not even need explaining at such a critical time as during a major battle.

Even then, if they are so bad at what they do, the community would collectively get to know them as sub-par through their mid-game and would have otherwise known what to expect. Something that is very hard to derive from a player whose necessary skills for survival are so limited as to 2-3 actions, given that they don't opt out of completely to be powerleveled.

I can agree with some players needing supplementary experience as opposed to others. The irony is, grinding those levels without getting PLed doesn't teach you something more profound than Cure, Cura, Curaga and Stoneskin.

Nothing teaches you endgame content performance, like endgame content.

Now if the game had more challenging content sprinkled throughout the lower levels that actually promoted learning, then I may be inclined to think differently. As it stands in XIV however, grinding in exp parties and getting PLed can be considered equally mindless.

[Xoo]

I can agree with some players needing supplementary experience as opposed to others. The irony is, grinding those levels without getting PLed doesn't teach you something more profound than Cure, Cura, Curaga and Stoneskin.

Nothing teaches you endgame content performance, like endgame content.

Now if the game had more challenging content sprinkled throughout the lower levels that actually promoted learning, then I may be inclined to think differently. As it stands in XIV however, grinding in exp parties and getting PLed can be considered equally mindless.

Of course it doesn't. The battle system is fucked.

[NoctisUmbra]

Of course it doesn't. The battle system is fucked.

Battle system itself is fine. Needs some tweaks here and there, but I would call it fucked. Not even close. I don't even see how you connect this matter to the battle system, unless of course what you mean to refer to is the claiming system- in which case I would still say it's perfectly fine.

You can elaborate on what aspects of the battle system you find not your liking if you want though- especially by relating it to PL so as to stay on topic.

[Xoo]

Battle system itself is fine. Needs some tweaks here and there, but I would call it fucked. Not even close. I don't even see how you connect this matter to the battle system, unless of course what you mean to refer to is the claiming system- in which case I would still say it's perfectly fine.

You can elaborate on what aspects of the battle system you find not your liking if you want though- especially by relating it to PL so as to stay on topic.

Not sure what difference it would make, or why I even should, as the only explanation you give for your argument is, "It's fine". Uhh, sure?

Fine, let me elaborate (just so you can repeat yourself and say no, it's fine...); The system we have now, in spite of any given you might incorporate into the player skill equation (IE: Everyone's a pro - only idiots need mid-game play to learn things that most can figure out regardless.), restricts any possible need to discover what little depth exists to the jobs as they are in order to be efficient. Your tank leads the group around gathering a group of mobs, where once your DD spam anything, everything, or nothing at all and still remain effective. Nobody pays any attention at all to enmity. Your WHM follows the group, casts Curaga, Stoneskin, and if needed PoM+Cura where again little attention toward enmity is needed.

Take all that, and with regard to PL, you don't even learn that much. It doesn't matter though, grinding teaches you nothing about the game, and so it is for the rest of the community.

[NoctisUmbra]

Not sure what difference it would make, or why I even should, as the only explanation you give for your argument is, "It's fine". Uhh, sure?

Fine, let me elaborate (just so you can repeat yourself and say no, it's fine...); The system we have now, in spite of any given you might incorporate into the player skill equation (IE: Everyone's a pro - only idiots need mid-game play to learn things that most can figure out regardless.), restricts any possible need to discover what little depth exists to the jobs as they are in order to be efficient. Your tank leads the group around gathering a group of mobs, where once your DD spam anything, everything, or nothing at all and still remain effective. Nobody pays any attention at all to enmity. Your WHM follows the group, casts Curaga, Stoneskin, and if needed PoM+Cura where again little attention toward enmity is needed.

Take all that, and with regard to PL, you don't even learn that much. It doesn't matter though, grinding teaches you nothing about the game, and so it is for the rest of the community.

So you just described a pulling scenario commonly used in dungeons to get through them efficiently/quickly. You left out any kind of boss battle completely, where managing enmity and learning an effective rotation with your jobs, as well as proper positioning all play vital roles. Uhh, sure.

Even then, all you're really talking about is the content design.

[Xoo]

So you just described a pulling scenario commonly used in dungeons to get through them efficiently/quickly. You left out any kind of boss battle completely, where managing enmity and learning an effective rotation with your jobs, as well as proper positioning all play vital roles. Uhh, sure.

Even then, all you're really talking about is the content design.

That's right, and where I come from, we learn to crawl before we walk.