PL Woes

[Eiz]

There are many reasons implicit in the comments against the pl, not all objective and reasoned. I don't buy the argument that leveling with PL make you a noob. I'm not going to defend that behavior neither, but one thing must be pointed: PL doesn't create noobs. There are a lot out there and i'm sure most of them doesn't even know about the PL thing.
Noobism is an attitude, it goes with the personality, same way as in life there are and always will be ignorants and there is people eager of knowledge.

I used to have 6 75's in FFXI. Ones i've used more and others less. Ones were leveled in barely one month while others took me a year and half. Obviously, your knowledge and skills with a job, like anything in life, improves with experience and practice... but also with effort and the amount of interest you put on it.
There were people in XI who took the long and tedious way of leveling a job and played it for years and still playing and behaving like noobs. In fact the word "noob" itself differs from "newbie" in that point.

The job that took me year and half (my 1st as you can guess) was the Dark Knight. I played that job for thousands of hours (Leveling, Genkai, Main Sceneario, RoZ, CoP, farming, camping, and finally end game). I got to know every minor detail of DRK, got obsessed parsing and improving dps and gear-swap macros for every single spell or weaponskill. That's good.

But at some point, a random group of ppl i was playing with, needed a RDM/DRK. All 6 RDM's in that group were too lazy to level DRK to 37 so i used to get my RDM1 and leveled it to 75 in near a month. Just a few weeks after that i was leading Stun at khimaira, cerberus or tiamat, mostly in Tank's party so you can figure out.

The happy ending of this history is that i loved RDM and started playing it as my main job. If you read this, Mr-P, we want Delamund to bring us Red Mage back!

Well, my point is not that I rock.. is that you can complain about PL for many reasons.. Because lowers the challenge, or because you leveled painfully through leves from release and it bothers you that others have this shortcurt.. all that is fine. But please, don't put the noob's excuse, is self-deceptive.

[Zaaku]

I would rather have a clueless somebody at 50 in a week, than have the same person quit at level 30 because leveling is boring as all hell. And trust me, there are dozens of people who do this.

Not to be blunt but GOOD! FFXI had smaller player base them most but each and every person in that game proved themselves by virtue of even having a single 75. It represented commitment. The willingness to tough it out. Be able to scrap and scrounge gil together and play through the game despite the roadblocks in their way. Roadblocks that which look upon post-cap were actually mile stones.

If a number of subscribers will quit the game because everything isn't handed to them on a silver platter then so be it. The game, community, and SE are better off for it. Those who cannot be arsed to put up the effort to attain that which they want are fickle to begin with and will leave the game with the change of the wind. FFXI's limited the amount of people who would play beyond a few days with every day challenges. Those that stay stayed for YEARS and paid for years. Going for the quick buck easy mode is going to clip their tail profits in the end. While screwing the existing players by making what should be accomplishments into no-effort rewards for anyone who can sit around while someone else exploits the game.

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[Vaer]

If a number of subscribers will quit the game because everything isn't handed to them on a silver platter then so be it. The game, community, and SE are better off for it. Those who cannot be arsed to put up the effort to attain that which they want are fickle to begin with and will leave the game with the change of the wind. FFXI's limited the amount of people who would play beyond a few days with every day challenges. Those that stay stayed for YEARS and paid for years. Going for the quick buck easy mode is going to clip their tail profits in the end. While screwing the existing players by making what should be accomplishments into no-effort rewards for anyone who can sit around while someone else exploits the game.

Not going to happen. SE is a business. They'll do what makes them the most money and the money right now are the casuals. Guess why they completely mutilated FFXI with Abyssea? Same reason.

Masochistic game design is dead. The MMO genre nowadays is top heavy, achievement system based junk that can't create content faster than the player can consume.

Just take linear single player games for example. They are usually 20-40 hours ball park. If someone plays 8 hours a day, they'll be done in less than a week. Same problem in MMOs. How long does it take people in cliques to clear new content in current FFXIV? Couple days?

The only way to stop mass exodus of quitting is to roadblock players by adding silly token/point systems that are capped per week, have terribad drop rates or have some sort of real life time-based lockout.

The argument nowadays is "This is a game not a job."

Sorry, while I agree PLing is silly, this is 2012 and the EverQuest-era is over. Time to let go. Only a small niche of players enjoy the journey anymore evidenced by the countless number of "new" games that are released which are the exact same gameplay model and become rather successful.

Almost none of the current games have the "takes forever to level" system. Even the "beloved" FFXI doesn't have it anymore and the PLing in current FFXI is even more ridiculous than this game.

[Wolfie]

Sorry, while I agree PLing is silly, this is 2012 and the EverQuest-era is over. Time to let go. Only a small niche of players enjoy the journey anymore evidenced by the countless number of "new" games that are released which are the exact same gameplay model and become rather successful.

Sorry, this common misconception and MMO rumor is starting to bother the f**k out of me. Players will always love the leveling journey if it is presented in an accessible and fun manner. People like it when they are able to log in and get at least something accomplished without having the same monotonous leveling style from level 1 all the way to the cap.

FFXI and FFXIV's models of straight up grinding mobs makes their journeys one of the least desirable ones in MMO gaming, and it's the number one reason why PLing is so pervasive now. PLing existed in WOW for a very long time, but it's not a problem because Blizzard invested so many resources into making leveling fun, that people who get PLed actually miss out on fun content, lore, and the game's experience.

[Krausus]

Sorry, this common misconception and MMO rumor is starting to bother the f**k out of me. Players will always love the leveling journey if it is presented in an accessible and fun manner. People like it when they are able to log in and get at least something accomplished without having the same monotonous leveling style from level 1 all the way to the cap.

FFXI and FFXIV's models of straight up grinding mobs makes their journeys one of the least desirable ones in MMO gaming, and it's the number one reason why PLing is so pervasive now. PLing existed in WOW for a very long time, but it's not a problem because Blizzard invested so many resources into making leveling fun, that people who get PLed actually miss out on fun content, lore, and the game's experience.

^^^ Very much this, anyone that finds leveling in FFXIV fun must hate themselves.

[Chardrizard]

FFXI and FFXIV's models of straight up grinding mobs makes their journeys one of the least desirable ones in MMO gaming, and it's the number one reason why PLing is so pervasive now. PLing existed in WOW for a very long time, but it's not a problem because Blizzard invested so many resources into making leveling fun, that people who get PLed actually miss out on fun content, lore, and the game's experience.

Holy. Finally a post with some intelligent and facts in it.

[Wolfie]

Wow, if your honest opinion is that leveling should not be fun and that making it fun means making it easy mode, then I'm done with this topic and may god help this game.

[Aleczan]

I know leveling up the hard way is not a "sure way" to make people know their job and party role, but it sure does force them to TRY to learn to play properly and to learn to survive. Let's say normal level grinding process is what weeds out the "dumbness" in people (or even weed out the bad player who cannot play properly to survive LOL). No matter how dumb or slow they are, they WILL learn more from playing the class/job properly than from being PL'ed.

And yes this issue is why I am afraid of doing big stuff with random people.

[darkstarpoet1]

I know leveling up the hard way is not a "sure way" to make people know their job and party role, but it sure does force them to TRY to learn to play properly and to learn to survive. Let's say normal level grinding process is what weeds out the "dumbness" in people (or even weed out the bad player who cannot play properly to survive LOL). No matter how dumb or slow they are, they WILL learn more from playing the class/job properly than from being PL'ed.

And yes this issue is why I am afraid of doing big stuff with random people.

exactly this ^^

were there people that leveled even under the old fatigue system that were bad players? yes, there were plenty of them.

i can say that there were only a very few people that were horrible players that had 50's during the original leveling curve, but it's also true that people knew who they were by name because it took them long enough to reach cap that most groups already knew who they were so did not invite them to parties. the difference is now that same horrible player can get to cap in a few days so people do not know them.

anytime you jump into a pub party it's almost to the point you have to go check each person in the party to check their profile and see how long they've been playing.

[ThePatriarch]

Full AF level 50 Mog access first weeker.

This is what the current generation of gamers want.