PSA: Provoke and You.

[SnowVix]

In Shiva Savage, she resets enmity in phase 2. It's absolutely necessary to use voke there and it shows clearly that it does add threat, otherwise dps jobs would rip from the tank pretty quickly.

So you actually CAN pull with provoke now, in tank stance. It adds a huge number of threat points on top of w/e the top aggro holder has.

no, eden 8 savage does not reset threat after adds.

Edit: the reason you see shirks and vokes there is either due to a tank death (which does reset that tank's enmity) or due to the gap between tanks being too small for comfort due to the way Akh Morn works there and the differing damage between tank openers.

[Leiron]

this is terrible not just for reasons of risking enmity ripping (which it really doesn't as long as you don't have someone with a burst ready, which often happens), but because shitty boss positioning kills people. Doing this on the second boss of the new dungeon will make her first AoE cover about 95% of the arena unless you immediately pull her back, negating the whole reason you pulled with the gapclose in the first place. Pulling with ranged attack will get the boss in melee with you before your next GCD anyway.

Enmity generation is so massive in this game that it literally does not matter how you pull a boss so long as you have them in a proper position. Unless you're capable of performing burst that is equivalent to well over 2k potency in the span of 2 seconds, you won't be ripping any agro.

Well, outside of provoking.
Which if you think about it technically it is an oGCD ability so...meh?

[Leiron]

Good job on invalidating your entire thread.

Who cares if other tanks are spamming provoke or choose to play badly. They're playing for fun and if it mattered to you, then maybe you shouldn't Duty Finder. Maybe you should run with your Ultimate/Savage FC instead if you want a smooth WoD clear. People like you need to just chill and lighten up and understand that not everybody worships class guides and tooltips, and they just wanna chill in a MSQ dungeon, expert, trials roulette, whatever. Maybe you think they're weird, but doing super-optimal robotic tank dps over and over again is rather boring. Sometimes just mixing things up a bit and throwing in a provoke to actually tank, is more fun than being a robotic blue dps all the time.

I hope this has enlightened you on learning to enjoy the game and look at groups with less of an elitist top 1% perfect optimization mindset, such as not randomly pressing provoke mid fight, which is very advanced gameplay for most players, similar to not pressing a gap closer to pull.

It didn't invalidate her thread in anyway, you are doing what is known as false equivalence.
Her point was that being perfect isn't necessary or harmful to gameplay.
Provoking is harmful to gameplay because it provides such little enmity that ripping agro is a possibility, where as simply using tomahawk or unmend lends so much more enmity that it is not a worry.
One is about optimization.
The other is about using abilities properly.
They are not the same.

[Lyth]

The underlying issue with 24-player content is that most fights are really just designed for one tank. This in turn is part of a broader problem in which the developers of this game have no idea how to design fights for tanks.

Provoke itself isn't really the issue. Historically, you still had tanks provoking left and right out of the sheer boredom of being relegated to watching someone else tank a target dummy boss. The only difference was that if you had enough of a gear advantage, you'd still keep enmity even after the provoke, and eventually the other tank would feel rather sheepish about the whole thing and just give up. Now that Provoke was changed in Shadowbringers to give you max enmity + an additional 2000 enmity potency, it becomes more noticeable and there's more incentive to keep doing it. But the bottom line is that if you design fights intelligently in a way that gives all three tanks something to actually do instead of being backups for when the active tank dies, then it becomes a complete non-issue.

[Esmoire]

Just as an aside for dungeons it can be good to use Provoke as a way to trigger the script of enemies from a further distance. So, for example, getting a boss to come to you sooner when you have a combo going, or getting enemies to bunch up sooner.

But like, in combat, single target, unless it's to get yourself back to the top of the enmity list you don't have a reason to be using it on something already fighting you.

[Liam_Harper]

Provoking is harmful to gameplay because it provides such little enmity that ripping agro is a possibility, where as simply using tomahawk or unmend lends so much more enmity that it is not a worry.

We've gone over this in the thread already. Provoke is a 2000 potency value as of 5.0 (x10 with tank stance). Why refuse to actually read what I post, then present outdated facts that no longer apply as an argument?

Certainly you shouldn't spam provoke or waste it before a swap, but pulling with it (optimal or not) won't cause issues anymore.