PSA: Provoke and You.

[Maeka]

So, we just wiped three times in WoD on the 2nd boss and the duty was eventually abandoned because we had two newbie tanks who were just spamming provoke left and right even though we asked them to stop, and that brings to mind just how many tanks I see in dungeons not using Provoke properly.

So, how does Provoke actually work?

Well... it puts you at the top of the Enmity/Hate list, and then adds a small amount of Enmity, and...... that's it. That's all it does. It does almost nothing if the mob is idle, and it does pretty much nothing if the enemy is already attacking you. This is NOT Final Fantasy XI.

So please, stop spamming it. You're supposed to use Provoke when you need to tank a mob NOW and you don't have very much enmity on it, such as an OT picking up a boss after the MT dies, or to grab a mob some DPS pulled off of you.

Please don't:

1). Pull with Provoke. Use Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend/That GNB ranged attack instead. People who pull with Provoke almost always immediately lose whatever they pulled to the first person who touches the enemy and then Provoke is on cooldown.

2). Macro it in with regular rotation abilities. No, you do not need to use Provoke every time you use Fast Blade, Heavy Swing, etc. This only ensures that your Provoke is on CD whenever you do need it, and it will only anger everybody else in a multi-tank group, such as an Alliance Raid or any 8-man fight.

[DRKoftheAzure]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

[Leiron]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

No, it doesn't, because putting enmity combos back into the game doesn't change the fact that people are pulling with provoke.
People did the same behavior up until enmity got buffed and enmity combos were removed. So I fail to see the logic in your statement.

[Tranquilmelody7]

It's fine to pull with Provoke in SHB with light parties, I do so all the time.
Provoke has way more range than the Ranged openers, and starting with voke let's you conserve a GCD and initiate your DPS rotation sooner.

If you're really worried about losing snap enmity just weave a potion after your first GCD and you should achieve a conventionally insurmountable enmity lead.
Provoke has such a short CD that itbeing unavailable at thestartof a battle is rarely relevant.

For Alliances and especially high end content you are correct, you probably want to conserve provoke and having someone rip initial hatefrom you isn't worth the risk

Though tbh I pull with provoke during alliances all the time without putting my group at any apparent disadvantage.
As with using provoke with any situation, what really matters is how it's follow up resolves.

[Videra]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

There is not a single circumstance in current tanking that necessitates useless emnity combos lol.

[DRKoftheAzure]

No, it doesn't, because putting enmity combos back into the game doesn't change the fact that people are pulling with provoke.
People did the same behavior up until enmity got buffed and enmity combos were removed. So I fail to see the logic in your statement.

There is not a single circumstance in current tanking that necessitates useless emnity combos lol.

Can either of you come up with better ideas that DON'T involve the ONE enmity toggle, Provoke, Shirk, and the ONE ranged attack that all tanks have? Because I am actually interested in hearing what ideas you would have instead.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It's fine to pull with Provoke in SHB with light parties, I do so all the time.
Provoke has way more range than the Ranged openers, and starting with voke let's you conserve a GCD and initiate your DPS rotation sooner.

That is an unneeded waste. Your GCD will likely have reset even when using the 15y Ranged Weaponskills by the time the enemy has reached you or you have reached the enemy.

There are very few cases where the 25y range of Provoke is actually useful for pulling (for example the artillery succubi in Amdapor Keep's 3rd section) over using your Ranged Attack or Gap Closer mostly due to the "Big Pull" meta.

Though tbh I pull with provoke during alliances all the time without putting my group at any apparent disadvantage.

It would likely be just as effective if not more so to Gap Close -> Single Target Rotation rather than use Provoke to pull.

[Kabooa]

That is an unneeded waste. Your GCD will likely have reset even when using the 15y Ranged Weaponskills by the time the enemy has reached you or you have reached the enemy.

OGCD threat application.

Plenty of places to utilize that for comfort.

[Boomsmash]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

You.
Don't.
Need.
Enmity.
Combos.

Listen to me. Listen hard, because I have L80 tanks on 3 different characters. This is basic mechanics, too, so that shouldn't matter.

Tank Stance multiplies the enmity your EVERYTHING generates by like 100. You do not need Provoke, at all, unless the fight has a tank-swap mechanic that requires it to happen at exactly this second. As long as you are pushing your buttons and not stopping to finish a glass of wine between each, you are going to hold aggro.

As long as the OTs give the MT a few seconds to get a lead going on enmity, they can then have stance on and lay into the boss, and it is fine, because if the MT gets crumped the boss will snap to an OT that is in #2 spot, and not Ye Random Healer.

In conclusion, this issue is tanks Provoking without reason and without knowing what the hell they are doing, spinning and drunken wandering the boss all over the place, nuking the Alliance in the process.

[DRKoftheAzure]

You.
Don't.
Need.
Enmity.
Combos.

Then by that logic we also don't need Enmity toggles and have just enmity tied to the "Tank Mastery Trait" but someone is going to make an argument about why we need the enmity toggle to begin with, while also arguing that enmity combos should never come back.