Rework of unsynced system an mentor system

[HeulGDarian]

New players are overwhelmed with mechanics and instant deaths without actually having a chance to take part in the fight themselves. It might work on the first extremes like Gaurda or Ifrit. Sometimes you get someone who is somewhat used to the combat flow, but rarely. Newbies are often panicking to said mechanics and stepping where they shouldn't. They are used to regular dungeon mechanics of standing still and maybe dodging 1 slow red circle on the ground or a clear single indicator saying STAND HERE, and even then, those mechanics aren't punishing, they don't do them correctly but they still live and don't learn properly. I've seen this too many times. The low amount of people who get thrilled by that 1% wipe is really a vast minority compared to the everyday roulette experience.

You know this all just says , pls SE make a proper tutorial. instead what we got was Accessibility changes.....

[Fynlar]

Which works great if you're going Garuda EX where at i130 half the mechanics can be ignored and the others explained with a simple, "don't kill the spiny."

Incidentally, I have never, EVER seen a DF group not prematurely kill the spiny, even after repeatedly being told not to. It simply doesn't happen, and it's this sort of thing that mentors quickly grow tired of. "Mentoring" only works when people are willing to listen. Premature spiny death is understandable the first couple of times when it can be reasonably expected that people don't know any better, but it stops being that way real quick.

As a result, Garuda EX in DF has pretty much always been a race to kill her before she can do her 2nd Aerial Blast (which is nevertheless doable, due to the fight being tuned for much lower ilvl than 130, and if you live until that 2nd Aerial Blast you might get some echo to boot).

If you end up with this sort of mentality in an actually-difficult EX fight though? You simply aren't going to win, and nobody wants to waste a whole hour of their time chasing a lost cause, mentor or not.

If what I see in the DF for Garuda EX is any indication (where most people heavily outgear the fight and are apparently relying on that to allow them to ignore mechanics), Garuda Unreal is going to be an experience.

[Baxcel]

you could say this about any of the dungeons from mentor roulette right? its not just trials, somebody could be bad anywhere. so revoke all the clears in every other thing they might've sucked in?XD

im pretty sure u do already have to clear normal mode trials before even unlocking extremes. and even IF they re-cleared it, the whole chat log might've been quiet and they just got carried through the mechanics by other people.

Sure yeah you could say that about dungeons.. especially players almost abundant need to pull wall to wall.. which has been so bad that SE made dungeons where you couldn't do that..

An normal modes an dungeons are mostly part of the story theyre suppose to be a face roll.. Exs are not and players who duty finder them are looking for that challenge and wanting to try it out..

Head on into a current Ex trial.. and don't attack once just sit there.. see if your team clears

[Baxcel]

I'm not going to claim knowledge of your datacenter, but 4 of 4 is anecdotal at best.

I know thats why i started with im not one to normally use personal stories as examples..

[Wyakin]

The mentor system is hugely flawed, Most mentors barely know their heads from their elbows. However forcing people to redo old content won’t fix bad mentors. I myself have played since 2.0, cleared all but one raid tier, all extreme primals. Can I remember every mechanic of ramuhex? Nope. Maybe after an hours practice my memory might be jogged but as a whole, I can’t remember ravanaex, or any older trials really. The mentor system needs to be less focussed on teaching fight A or fight B and even less focussed on being one big chat room social gathering and become a more intimate one on one solution. Stick your name on a list, of a noob has a question expect a random /tell. “Hey mr mentor, can you tell me how I unlock X?” “Mr mrs mentor, I see you’re playing mch, could you offer me some tips?”

[Baxcel]

Ok, let's figure out what a mentor should do. Screenshot from the game.



And what about mentors' roulette? Let's read this page:



And what is the result? Any player can leave duty if something does not suit them. Mentors are no exception. They get their half-hour penalty.

A lot of mentors do not make mentors' roulette although they have access to it. Does this mean that they are bad mentors and do not help newcomers? Nope.

#2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.

Yelling at new players or even older players to do fights unsynced... demanding to be kicked from thr trial because it's not worth your time.. afking the entire fight because they wouldn't kick you.. refusing to even attempt to guide the players on an Ex trial..

This is exactly what is being talked about.. remove the ability to unsync a fight until its been cleared synced.. that will keep the people i mention above out..

Will some bad ones still slip in.. sure but you can be pretty dam sure they actual did the fight they were brought into by the roulette if the change was made

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

#2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.

Yelling at new players or even older players to do fights unsynced... demanding to be kicked from thr trial because it's not worth your time.. afking the entire fight because they wouldn't kick you.. refusing to even attempt to guide the players on an Ex trial..

This is exactly what is being talked about.. remove the ability to unsync a fight until its been cleared synced.. that will keep the people i mention above out..

Will some bad ones still slip in.. sure but you can be pretty dam sure they actual did the fight they were brought into by the roulette if the change was made

Point #1: provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.

People being rude about it isn't conductive, but the fact remains, telling a DF EX trial group to do it unsynced is in fact good advice - Because the groups you'd find in DF are vastly incapable of completing anything besides the easiest EX trials that can be gigantically outgeared to kill it before major mechanics. So telling them to use a system that allows them to have a great chance at clearing the content is good advice than continue using DF to futiliy try and eke out a clear by finding a bingo group among a sea of doomed ones.

Yeah it kinda will fix things.. because the next time I'm doing a ex trial an it gets filled by another mentor besides myself ill know that they actual cleared this fight before.. or are looking to clear it again to re-gain access to mentor roulette.. thus ensuring that they won't abandon the other players in the trial or demand special treatment to a kick so they don't get locked out..

So what I think you ment to say way this will help.. just not helpful for the bad mentors out there.

Or the actual reality: anyone who cares about Mentor roulette will do all of them in PF, then immediately bail and continue the same pattern again if they get EX in DF since it's not worth it, making your whole system pointless.
Alternative likely outcome: The EXs never pop since the amount of people that would care to re-unlock mentor roulette with all that criteria would basically be <1% of current mentors, completely defeating the point of your system and preventing you from ever using DF for EX's.

The simple reality is that EX trials don't belong in a roulette alongside things as trivial as Guildhests. If you're that adamant about doing trials synced with your buds, find a group of 7 others or PF it. Nothing will stop people understanding that EXs are a waste of time in mentor roulette and bailing. and if you implement punishments harsh enough for leaving, they'll just fake D/C or not queue at all; harming the dungeons/guildhests/normal trials/normal raids that could use the mentor roulette peeps to fill them out and actually have a chance at clearing.

[RajNish]

#2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.

Yelling at new players or even older players to do fights unsynced... demanding to be kicked from thr trial because it's not worth your time.. afking the entire fight because they wouldn't kick you.. refusing to even attempt to guide the players on an Ex trial..

Well, you observe the natural consequences of "fill party member slots". Of course, it's more decent to stay and wipe with the group, but these people make their choice. That is why I say that Ex Trials should not be in mentors' roulette.

[Bsrking5]

Lol. This will fix it. Oh wait, no it won't but it'll make me feel better. Thats your argument in a nut shell.

[Baxcel]

Lol. This will fix it. Oh wait, no it won't but it'll make me feel better. Thats your argument in a nut shell.

Yeah it kinda will fix things.. because the next time I'm doing a ex trial an it gets filled by another mentor besides myself ill know that they actual cleared this fight before.. or are looking to clear it again to re-gain access to mentor roulette.. thus ensuring that they won't abandon the other players in the trial or demand special treatment to a kick so they don't get locked out..

So what I think you ment to say way this will help.. just not helpful for the bad mentors out there.